Nature of Waves: Why Do They Form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of waves, particularly focusing on why they form in specific patterns and how energy transfer occurs through different mediums, such as air for sound waves and electromagnetic radiation. Participants explore concepts related to wave motion, restoring forces, and the differences between various types of waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why energy transfer occurs in wave patterns, considering whether air particles move in a way that resembles a wave or if energy travels in a straight line.
  • One participant suggests that energy moves in waves due to the presence of restoring forces, which arise from displacements of matter.
  • Another participant clarifies that sound waves are compression waves, where air particles transmit the wave by compressing and expanding rather than moving up and down like a sine wave.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that sound waves should be considered "spherical" rather than sine waves, highlighting the duality of compression and expansion as forces that create wave fronts.
  • There is a question raised about electromagnetic radiation and whether it behaves differently due to the absence of a medium with restoring forces.
  • One participant discusses the relationship between wave speed, tension, and inertia, referencing the equations related to electromagnetic waves and the speed of light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of wave motion, particularly regarding sound waves versus electromagnetic waves. There is no consensus on the fundamental reasons behind wave formation, and multiple competing explanations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions about wave behavior, such as the role of restoring forces and the nature of particle motion in different types of waves. The discussion does not resolve these assumptions or clarify the definitions of terms used.

LightRocks
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My question is regarding the nature of waves, and may be a very elementary question. Please bear with me.

I am curious as to why waves form the way that they do. If for example i were to turn on the speaker in my car, then the resulting wave that is produced is simply energy transfer through air particles. Why does the energy transfer in a wave pattern? Are the air particles actually bouncing off each other in a pattern that resembles a wave, constantly turning up and down through the medium in which they are traveling? Is there some nature of matter that causes travel through it to propagate in a wave formation? Or does the energy transfer travel in a straight line and the wave is a way of measuring its intensity at anyone point?

Thanks for any help :)


EDIT: Now that i think about it sound, light, water etc must travel through their mediums in actual wave patterns, otherwise cancellation(like in the 2 slit light experiment) wouldn't happen. Still I'm wondering why waves form the way that they do. Is a wave pattern the path of least resistance for the energy that is being transferred?
 
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LightRocks said:
I am curious as to why waves form the way that they do. If for example i were to turn on the speaker in my car, then the resulting wave that is produced is simply energy transfer through air particles. Why does the energy transfer in a wave pattern? Are the air particles actually bouncing off each other in a pattern that resembles a wave, constantly turning up and down through the medium in which they are traveling? Is there some nature of matter that causes travel through it to propagate in a wave formation? Or does the energy transfer travel in a straight line and the wave is a way of measuring its intensity at anyone point?
To answer this question you have to look at the forces that cause motion to occur, and how those forces vary in time and over space.

Energy moves in waves where there are restoring forces. If a displacement of matter gives rise to a restoring force, the matter will undergo some form of wave motion.

AM
 
I'm not entirely sure, but your post seems to imply that you believe that the particles are moving up and down to make a sine wave, like a wave on a rope. This is not how a sound wave is transmitted in air. A sound wave is a compression wave where the air particles transmit the wave by squishing together and spreading apart.
 
moose352

"spherical" would be the proper form of a sound wave, not sine. AM is saying that the "duality" of compression/expansion each acts as a restorative or causal force to create the next, larger, wave front.

TRoc
 
T. Roc,

I am aware of that the sound wave is not a sine wave. That is what I was clarifying my post, as the OP seemed as though he believe that a sound wave is like a sine wave.

Moose
 
hmm

thanks everyone, this helps to clarify it for me :)

As for electromagnetic radiation, is that different? It seems like there could be no restoring force for that, since its not just a rippling of the medium ...
 
In all waves, the speed goes up with "tension" (think of a stretched string), and goes down with "inertia" (thicker strings = slower speed). The equation is like this:

[tex]speed = (\frac{tension}{inertia})^1/2[/tex]

To paraphrase the achievements of J.C. Maxwell in modern notation:

The restoring force is the electric tension:

[tex]\frac{1}{\epsilon_0}[/tex] "The permitivity of free space." = 8.85*10^12

And the inertial element is the magnetic inductance:

[tex]\mu_0[/tex] "The permeability of free space". = 4*pi*10^-7

If you relate these in the way common to all waves:

[tex]speed = (\frac{tension}{inertia})^1/2[/tex]

Then you calculate a speed of 300,000,000 m/s i.e. the speed of light.

 

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