Oldest piece of the planet Earth.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the identification and dating of the oldest pieces of Earth, specifically focusing on zircon crystals and the methods used to determine their age. Participants explore various aspects of geological dating techniques and the significance of ancient geological formations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the methods used to find the oldest bits of Earth, with one suggesting radioactive dating techniques as a common approach.
  • It is noted that zircon crystals contain uranium, which can be measured against lead to estimate their age.
  • One participant mentions the Canadian Shield as a significant geological formation that is approximately 4 billion years old.
  • There is a discussion about the feasibility and interest in visiting ancient geological sites versus viewing small zircon crystals.
  • Questions arise regarding the existence of other ancient molecules or minerals, with a participant clarifying that many rocks could be old but are only dateable if they contain radioactive elements.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations of carbon-14 dating for older samples, with participants discussing alternative radioactive elements like uranium and potassium-40 for dating millions or billions of years old materials.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the use of the Rubidium-Strontium method for dating minerals and the limitations of carbon dating to organic matter.
  • Some participants express frustration with external links, citing issues with spam pop-ups on a referenced website.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the methods of dating geological samples, with some agreeing on the use of radioactive elements while others question the applicability of carbon dating for older samples. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of other ancient materials and the best methods for dating them.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the presence of radioactive elements in rocks for dating, as well as the challenges of accurately dating materials that are millions or billions of years old.

GENIERE
A speck of crystal is the oldest bit of Earth found according to this article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152930,00.html

How in the world (pun intended) does one set out looking for the oldest bits?


 
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GENIERE said:
How in the world (pun intended) does one set out looking for the oldest bits?

It's the usual radioactive dating method. You look for crystal structures that are known to have radioactive elements in them and then you look at the ratios of the product and the original radioactive element. In this case, Zircon crystals have uranium incorporated into their structure, so if you look at the ratio of uranium to lead (the decay product) in the crystal, you can determine roughly how long its been since the crystal was formed.
 
Come to Canada. The Canadian Shield (the place is lousy with it - you can't spit without hitting it) is 4 billion years old.
 
As much as I love geology, even to me, the prospect of going to see "A tiny speck of zircon crystal that is barely visible to the eye" seems somewhat silly. I'd much rather take a trip to see the Canadian Shield as Dave suggests.
 
Are there any other molecules that are this old or is it just the one molecule?
 
I tried to go to the site, and got bombarded with spam pop-ups. That site sucks
 
What radioactive element would they use to determine the age of something that was 1 million years old, or 1 billion?. I know carbon 14 is used for carbon dating but the half life for that is like 5700 years. Would there be a measurable amount left after such a long amount of time?

Huck
 
Huckleberry said:
What radioactive element would they use to determine the age of something that was 1 million years old, or 1 billion?. I know carbon 14 is used for carbon dating but the half life for that is like 5700 years. Would there be a measurable amount left after such a long amount of time?

Carbon-14 is better for much shorter timescales (such as for anthropology). There would be very little of the radioactive parent left after millions or billions of years (remember, exponential decay). For longer timescales, they use things like uranium and potassium-40.
 
misskitty said:
Are there any other molecules that are this old or is it just the one molecule?

It's much bigger than a molecule (a small shard of crystal) and I'm sure that there are many more rocks that old. However, we can only date them if they contain radioactive elements, so for most rocks, we wouldn't know if they were very old.
 
  • #10
Just to clarify, the Rubidium-Strontium method is used to date minerals. Carbon dating is used for organic matter.
 
  • #11
Let's say that carbon dating needs carbon and can be used for instance to date limestone as well. However, since the halftime of radioactive 14C is only 5700 years, the dating range is limited to about 50,000 years.
 
  • #12
hypatia said:
I tried to go to the site, and got bombarded with spam pop-ups. That site sucks

GET MOZILLA
it is free and popup free tooo
[if you turn on the popup blocker]
you will not see a popup

when I clicked to that foxnews site
I saw no popups at all

:approve:
 

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