Can you find the solution with this additional property?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a two-dimensional series array represented by a matrix A[r,c]. Participants explore the properties of this matrix, propose potential values for specific entries, and attempt to derive a formula for its elements. The conversation includes attempts to solve for specific entries and to understand the underlying structure of the series.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a matrix A[r,c] with specific entries and asks others to complete it and find values for certain pairs.
  • Another participant proposes a formula for A(r, c) and claims it matches some given values, but later expresses uncertainty about whether it is the intended solution.
  • Multiple participants suggest different values for A(9, 11), including decimal approximations and fractions, but none agree on a correct answer.
  • One participant notes that their guess for A(3, 2) is the same as another's, indicating a shared approach to the problem.
  • Another participant expresses doubt that any of the proposed answers match the original series, suggesting the possibility of multiple solutions.
  • There is a repeated emphasis on the property that each row or column forms its own logical arithmetic series.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct values for A(9, 11) or the overall structure of the series. Multiple competing views and proposed formulas remain without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference a specific property of the matrix related to the ratio of its elements, but the implications of this property are not fully explored or agreed upon. There are indications of missing assumptions and unresolved mathematical steps in the proposed formulas.

AntonVrba
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[tex] A[r,c] = \left(\begin{array}{cccccc}<br /> \frac{1}{2}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&-&-&-&...\\<br /> \frac{1}{4}\multsp \left(2+{\sqrt{8}}\right)&\frac{1}{4}\multsp <br /> \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&-&-&...\\<br /> \frac{1}{6}\multsp \left(3+{\sqrt{13}}\right)&-&\frac{1}{6}\multsp <br /> \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&-&... \\<br /> \frac{1}{8}\multsp \left(4+{\sqrt{20}}\right)&-&-&\frac{1}{8}\multsp <br /> \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&... \\<br /> \frac{1}{10}\multsp <br /> \left(5+{\sqrt{29}}\right)&-&-&-&\frac{1}{10}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&...\\<br /> ...&...&...&...&...&... <br /> \end{array}\right)[/tex]

How often have we solved linear series, how about a two dimensional series array

Can you complete the matrix?

Once you have it, instead of white just give the answer as a decimal number for say A[9,11] or any other pair

The answer is suprisingly simple :biggrin:


Edit-1
:biggrin: To note is that each induvidual row or column also forms its own logical arithmic series :biggrin:

Edit-2
BicycleTree said:
The formula I got is:
A(r, c) = 1/(2*r)*(r-c+1+sqrt((r-c+2)^2-2(r-c)+1))
That matches the values you've given.
OOPS - redface shame etc :redface:

It is not the solution I had in mind - so you are correct. The solution I had in mind has a further property

[tex]\frac {A[r,c]}{A[n.r,n.c]} = n[/tex]
 
Last edited:
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A[9, 11] = .061803? (Numbering from [0,0]; from [1,1] that would be A[10,12] = .061803[/color]
 
BicycleTree - sorry try again
 
Perhaps:
A(9, 11) = 1/18[/color]
 
BicycleTree said:
Perhaps:
A(9, 11) = 1/18[/color]
Sorry - wrong again
 
Maybe
A(9, 11) = .06867[/color]
 
Last edited:
[tex]A[r,c] = \left(\begin{array}{cccccc} \frac{1}{2}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&-&-&-&...\\ \frac{1}{4}\multsp \left(2+{\sqrt{8}}\right)&\frac{1}{4}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&-&-&...\\ \frac{1}{6}\multsp \left(3+{\sqrt{13}}\right)&-&\frac{1}{6}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&-&... \\ \frac{1}{8}\multsp \left(4+{\sqrt{20}}\right)&-&-&\frac{1}{8}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&-&... \\ \frac{1}{10}\multsp \left(5+{\sqrt{29}}\right)&-&-&-&\frac{1}{10}\multsp \left(1+{\sqrt{5}}\right)&...\\...&...&...&...&...&... \end{array}\right)[/tex]

Is it,
A(11, 13)=O.6867?
 
my first guess:

A(3,2) = 0.80473...[/color]
 
marcus said:
my first guess:

A(3,2) = 0.80473...[/color]

Ahh! I see that my proposal is the same as bicycle tree gave in post #6, just two posts back.

I would also say, like bicycle tree, that

A(9,11) = 0.0.06867...[/color]

so he and I must be using the same formula for the general term A(r,c)
 
  • #10
Folks, none of the proposed answers match my series - either there are two solutions which would surprise me. So let's check marcus' or bicycletree's solution.

For the answers to be correct, :biggrin: each induvidual row or column also forms its own logical arithmic series :biggrin: .
 
  • #11
The formula I got is:
A(r, c) = 1/(2*r)*(r-c+1+sqrt((r-c+2)^2-2(r-c)+1))[/color]
That matches the values you've given.
 
  • #12
BicycleTree said:
The formula I got is:
A(r, c) = 1/(2*r)*(r-c+1+sqrt((r-c+2)^2-2(r-c)+1))
That matches the values you've given.
OOPS - redface shame etc :redface:

It is not the solution I had in mind - so you are correct. The solution I had in mind has a further property

[tex]\frac {A[r,c]}{A[n.r,n.c]} = n[/tex]
 

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