Vinegar to methanol?


by limitapproaches0
Tags: methanol, vinegar
limitapproaches0
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#1
May12-05, 04:58 PM
P: 11
is this possible?
see what i did was poured some apple cider vinegar into a cup and coverd it with saran wrap and overlapped so it would catch in my little aluminum foil base. i left it out in the sun for 2 days and when i approached it i may just be crazy but i could feintly smell the scent of methanol. i know methanol is used to make vinegar but is this possible. i didnt get too up close and personal with the cup b\c of fear it may have become methanol or some sort of aldehyde, so i just tossed it. so any chemists and this may be a tough one cause my mom wasnt sure and she is a chemist.
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Astronuc
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#2
May12-05, 05:19 PM
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Acetic or ethanoic acid is one of the simplest carboxylic acids (fatty acids). In the pure state it is a colourless liquid with an unpleasant pungent odour. It solidifies to an white or ice-like crystalline mass at 16.7C (62.4F), and hence is often called glacial ethanoic (acetic) acid. In a dilute form, mixed with water, it is the acid found in vinegar. Vinegar contains ~5%; or more ethanoic acid, produced by fermentation.

Ethanoic acid, known commonly as acetic acid (CH3COOH), is produced by the oxidation of ethanol. Ethanol is oxidized to acetaldehyde.

Methanoic acid, known commonly as formic acid (HCOOH), can be produced by oxidation of methanol (CH3OH). Methanol is oxidized to formaldehyde.

look at - OXIDATION OF ALCOHOLS
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/organicpr...oxidation.html

Also - look at - OXIDATION OF ALDEHYDES AND KETONES
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/organicpr...oxidation.html

Also check this site for an overview of organic chem. I haven't scrutinized it, so I can't endorse it, but it may be useful.

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/chemistry/carey5e/
limitapproaches0
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#3
May12-05, 09:54 PM
P: 11
so its unlikely i made methanol?

DrMark
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#4
May12-05, 10:33 PM
P: 92

Vinegar to methanol?


OK let's use some common sense here. Clearly this is not a thermal reaction since I have been cooking with various vinegars (including cider) for more years than I care to mention, and I have not gone blind. So this effect must be photochemical. Acetic acid does not absorb visible light, but cider vinegar is colored. Hence there is the potential for photochemical reactions with the chemicals that make it colored. What the exact composition of these chemicals are I have no idea so I can't speculate are to what the products would be. I would doubt methanol is a product since I've never seen a light sensitive warning on vinegars and many come in "clear" bottles.
limitapproaches0
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#5
May12-05, 10:39 PM
P: 11
but it was in the sun. and there was the presense of aluminum foil, in which aluminum is sometimes a catalyst in a chemical reaction.
DrMark
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#6
May12-05, 10:52 PM
P: 92
OK I'm confused. You had the Al in the vinigar ?
limitapproaches0
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#7
May12-05, 10:57 PM
P: 11
no
the vinegar was in the cup and the cup was covered with saran wrap and the aluminum foil was placed under to collect any type of condensation that may have evolved
DrMark
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#8
May12-05, 11:04 PM
P: 92
OK so how could the Al have any catalytic effect, outside of reflecting the light ?
limitapproaches0
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#9
May12-05, 11:05 PM
P: 11
im not sure. is it possible that i produced methanol?
GCT
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#10
May13-05, 10:36 AM
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I doubt that aluminum foil would have had any catalytic effect, from what I remember the cationic form of aluminum does react with water in some sense...overall I doubt that you obtained methanol, how exactly are you familiar with the smell of methanol?
limitapproaches0
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#11
May13-05, 04:35 PM
P: 11
not too familiar. i smelled it last year once in an octane booster. it has a really pungent methane like smell from what i remember. is it possible that other chemicals could have similar smell to it. anyways i really dont go around smelling chemicals.
DrMark
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#12
May13-05, 05:55 PM
P: 92
Quote Quote by limitapproaches0
not too familiar. i smelled it last year once in an octane booster. it has a really pungent methane like smell from what i remember. is it possible that other chemicals could have similar smell to it. anyways i really dont go around smelling chemicals.
HCl form decomposition of the saran wrap (PVDC) would be one possibility.
rachmaninoff
#13
May14-05, 09:38 PM
P: n/a
Doesn't methanol smell slightly sweet? Or am I confused? I use it frequently to clean spectrophotometer lenses, BUT I have a very weak sense of smell so I often confuse things.

Regarding the saran wrap, does it decompose in sunlight? That would be somewhat worrying.
DrMark
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#14
May15-05, 03:20 AM
P: 92
Quote Quote by rachmaninoff
Doesn't methanol smell slightly sweet? Or am I confused? I use it frequently to clean spectrophotometer lenses, BUT I have a very weak sense of smell so I often confuse things.

Regarding the saran wrap, does it decompose in sunlight? That would be somewhat worrying.
I agree with the comment about alcohols. I do not consider methanol, ethanol, or propanol to have a pungent odors. As for the saran wrap thought, HCl has a quite pungent odor. PCDV will photochemically decompose very very slowly (sorry I don't have a quantum yield for it), but the question would be can acetic acid accelerate it.


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