Hy does every action have an equal and opposite reaction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why every action has an equal and opposite reaction, exploring the underlying principles of mechanics, particularly Newton's third law of motion. Participants delve into theoretical explanations, observations, and interpretations related to this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the Lagrangian of mechanical processes being invariant under translations provides a theoretical basis for understanding action and reaction.
  • Others argue that the principle is self-evident and rooted in observational evidence, asserting that it simply is a fundamental aspect of physics.
  • A participant humorously speculates that Newton's assertion might have been influenced by external suggestions.
  • One participant discusses the variability of experimental setups and how slight changes can lead to different observed effects, emphasizing the role of environmental conditions.
  • Another participant explains that every force has an equal and opposite force due to conservation of momentum, linking it to symmetries in physics as described by Noether's theorem.
  • Some participants question the foundational aspects of these laws, pondering why momentum is conserved and whether the laws of physics are truly invariant across different locations.
  • There is a mention that static forces do not adhere to the same principles as dynamic forces, introducing nuance into the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the explanations provided. Some agree on the observational nature of the principle, while others delve into theoretical frameworks that remain contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the foundational reasons behind conservation laws and the invariance of physical laws, indicating that these questions remain open and unresolved.

anand
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Why does every action have an equal and opposite reaction?
 
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Because the Lagrangian of mechanical processes is invariant under translations.
 
Heh heh.Actually I am a high school student.So, I don't really understand what you mean.Could you please explain?Any way,thanks for replying.
 


Originally posted by anand
Why does every action have an equal and opposite reaction?

This was a completely inapproiate response to a students question. I will not tolerate such garbage here.

Integral
 
Last edited by a moderator:


Originally posted by anand
Why does every action have an equal and opposite reaction?
Thats a tough question because it is something that seems (to me at least) to be self evident: It just does. So let me turn it around - is there something that leads you to believe it wouldn't?
 
The best reason I can come up with is because it does. This is an observation of Newtons and is incorporated in his fundamental laws. The goal of physics is to make predictions based upon observations. This is the observation. We cannot discuss why, it simply is.
 
i know it sounds totally nuts but maybe it was because somebody told Newton to say so
 
but was aplied in the wrong context
 
Originally posted by anand
Heh heh.Actually I am a high school student.So, I don't really understand what you mean.Could you please explain?Any way,thanks for replying.

There exists a casual geometrical explanation of action, reaction and theit subsequent resultant(s).

Rybo
 
  • #10


Originally posted by anand
Why does every action have an equal and opposite reaction?

Where you repeat experiments in the 'exact' manner, results show no deviaition from observed effects, you do something and something happens as a result, technically you cannot repeat any 'event' in exactly the same 100% way, Entropy will force you to comply to its natural path!

Now what is interesting is if you get a different angle on the possible number of ways you can do 'exact' experiments?.

For instance let's say Galilleo performs an experiment on the leaning tower of pisa, he drops a cannonball, it falls to Earth. If he goes back up and does the experiment again, he could deduce the time taken for the cannonball to drop to the ground, and make some basic assumptions based on the experiment.

Now if Galilleo, instead of retrieving the cannonball and goes back up the tower, he digs a hole into the ground next to the cannonball to a similar height of the Pisa Tower, and then drops the cannonball into the hole whilst peering over the edge taking notes, this a variation on the effects of Gravity, the original setup has changed, so the observed effect alters in a small way to compensate for difference's.

This experiment differs from the original, although the effect of the falling cannonball is governed by the same force, the slight difference in experimental setup, produces a differing 'observed' effect.

So every SIMILAR ACTION has a SIMILAR REACTION which is dependent on the exactness of the environmental setup. Most of Earths environment is similar to us, but differs vastly to that of say a dynamical Jupiter.

We are confined to our limited, but satisfactionary observations of a wider dynamical Universe and its constraining governing Effects.
 
  • #11


Originally posted by Ambitwistor
Specifically, every force has an equal and opposite force. This is because of conservation of momentum. Force is a change in momentum over time. If momentum is conserved, then it cannot change with time. That means that if you apply a force to change the momentum of part of a system, there must be an opposing change in momentum (force) to keep the total change in momentum equal to zero.

So, your question has been reduced to the question, "Why is momentum conserved?" If you study the Lagrangian formulation of mechanics, you learn that conservation laws are due to symmetries. (This is known as "Noether's theorem".) In this case, the law of conservation of momentum is due to a spatial translation symmetry. In plain terms, the outcome of an experiment should not depend on where it is performed. So if you move from one place to another ("translation in space"), the laws of physics are unchanged ("the laws of physics are invariant under spatial translation"). Noether's theorem says that there must then be a conserved quantity, which we call "momentum".

So, your question has been further reduced to the question, "Why are the laws of physics the same at all locations?" We don't know. Maybe they aren't ... they are as far as we know, but we can't know for sure.

This is has been the best formal anwer yet.

"Conservation of momentum" sounds much like "conservation of energy." I would informally extrapolate from those statements a "conservation of inerta" as well.

Why these three and others are conserved is due to the physical Universe being a finite integral whole.

Why are the laws of Universe the same everywhere in Universe as far as we know?

Beacuse if they weren't the integrity of our physically finite whole of Universe would not exist.

Rybo
 
  • #12


Originally posted by Ambitwistor
Specifically, every force has an equal and opposite force. This is because of conservation of momentum. Force is a change in momentum over time.
That isn't true for static forces as there is no momentum or energy change.

Integral really said it best: it is observed to be true.
 

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