Is it useful to use patient data for mathematical formulation of tumor growth?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Purgum
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical formulation of tumor growth using patient data. Participants explore how to model tumor cell growth and death rates, and whether data from multiple patients can enhance the accuracy of these models. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and potential applications in understanding tumor dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a differential equation for tumor growth based on growth rate m and death rate n, suggesting that the population P(t) can be modeled as P(t) = Ce(m-n)t.
  • Another participant questions the completeness of the data and suggests that the growth rate should depend on the number of tumor cells, proposing a model where the growth rate is proportional to the population.
  • A later reply reiterates the use of patient data to determine parameters C, m, and n, emphasizing the need for at least three data points per patient to establish a reliable model.
  • One participant introduces regression equations to estimate net growth rates and discusses the importance of checking for serial autocorrelation in the data.
  • There is mention of testing whether growth rates are consistent across patients and over time, with suggestions for more complex regression models to analyze the data.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of the initial model and the assumptions regarding growth and death rates. While some agree on the use of patient data for parameter estimation, there is no consensus on the best approach or the completeness of the proposed models.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the assumptions made about growth and death rates, as well as the need for sufficient data points to validate the proposed mathematical models. The discussion highlights the complexity of modeling tumor growth accurately.

Purgum
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
If a tumor cell grows with rate m, and dies with rate n (m>n), their population number is P, after tme t, how can set up a mathematical fomuler for growth ? If i also have data from 100 patients, is it useful ?
Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Essentially you are saying that the tumor cell grows with rate m-n so that you have the differential equation P'(t)= (m-n)P(t). Exponential functions have the property that their rate of change is a multiple of their value so P(t)= Ce(m-n)t.
I'm not sure what data you have but if you have P(t) for at least 3 different times for each patient, you can use the data to determine C, m, and n for each patient. Just put the values for t and P(t) into the equation and you will have three equations to solve for C, m, and n. If you have more than 3 "data points" for a patient, you can check how well those values correspond to P(t) calculated from the formula to see how good that model is. Of course, it would be interesting to see if m and n are at least approximately the same for the different patients.
 
If Purgum meant that rate is m-n, the differential eqn would be P'(t)=m-n.

However, I think, the data given is incomplete. The rate should be dependent in some way on the number of tumour cells; for example, the growth rate proportional to the no of tumour cells and death rate constant. The question given as such does not seem logical.
 
That's exactly what I said!
 
HallsofIvy said:
... I'm not sure what data you have but if you have P(t) for at least 3 different times for each patient, you can use the data to determine C, m, and n for each patient. ...
If you have lots of data, you can statistically estimate mi - ni (= net growth rate for patient i) through the regression equation:

Pi(t+1) = bi Pi(t) + ui(t)
where bi = mi - ni + 1 and you can test whether mi - ni > 0 by testing whether bi > 1 (that is, whether bi - 1 > 0);

or more generally:

Pi(t+1) = ai + bi Pi(t) + ui(t),
where you can also test the expectation ai = 0.

You need to check for serial autocorrelation; almost surely you will encounter positive autocorrelation (e.g. using Durbin-Watson test); if so, you'll need to correct for it.

You can also test whether m - n is identical across patients and/or over time for each patient, by building slightly more complicated regression equations.

Alternatively you may want to specify percentage growth rates (instead of linear as above).
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K