Could Life Exist in a Universe with 1D Time and 2D Dimensions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the possibility of life existing in a universe characterized by one dimension of time and two dimensions of space. Participants examine the implications of such a dimensional structure on the complexity and viability of life forms, referencing theoretical perspectives and speculative scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that a universe with 1D time and 2D space would be too simple for life, questioning the structural complexity necessary for life forms.
  • One participant references Stephen Hawking's ideas, proposing that 2D life would have fundamentally different biological structures, such as a digestive tract that could split beings into separate entities.
  • Another participant argues that in a 2D universe, movement would be severely restricted, and chain reactions might be more common due to the nature of atomic interactions on a 2D plane.
  • There is a suggestion that while complex life forms may not exist, simpler organisms like amoebas could potentially adapt to a 2D environment, although this remains speculative.
  • Some participants propose that any life forms in a 2D universe would likely need to be energy-based rather than organic, raising questions about their cognitive capabilities compared to organic beings.
  • Concerns are raised about the fundamental nature of atoms and particles, with some arguing that the existence of 3D atoms would preclude life in a strictly 2D universe.
  • Others challenge this by suggesting that particles can be treated as 0-dimensional point particles in theoretical models, though this leads to further debate about the physical reality of such concepts.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of a third dimension for physical reality, particularly regarding density and the existence of matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the feasibility of life in a 2D universe, with no consensus reached on the implications of dimensionality for the existence of life forms.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on assumptions about the nature of life and the properties of dimensions, and there are unresolved questions about the physical implications of theoretical models discussed.

Blahness
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I read in a magazine...

That a universe with 1 dimension of time and 2 dimensions would be too simple for life.

Why?
 
Space news on Phys.org
Blahness said:
That a universe with 1 dimension of time and 2 dimensions would be too simple for life.

Why?

Since PF strives to maintain a higher standard of discussion than most open forums, it is imperative that when you decide to ask a question or clarification based on another external source (such as a magazine), that you make an accurate citation of that source, i.e. name of the magazine, the date/volume number, page number, name of author of that article, etc. If not, there is no way for any of us to double check on what you read, if you misinterpret the source, or if the source is even credible at all.

Zz.
 
Okay, okay. Sorry about that.

Astronomy, Vol. 33 - Issue 10, October 2005.

Page: 39
Graph on the right side.
 
Well, this may be an interesting thread.
 
These things often refer to an example given by (I think) stephen hawking. The idea being that two dimensional life would have to be radically different to what we know, because your digestive tract would split you into two separate beings. Check out this link.
http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/warps.html
 
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exactly. in a 2 dimensional world, all the universe is flat and one atom thin.it you slice an animal in half, the digestive track being down the middle, and the animal now being only an atom or so thick, its body splits into pieces
 
You wouldn't be able to see anything either, because EM propogates in 3D.
 
yea. and movement of even one cell would be near impossible, but a lot of chain reactions would be a lot more common because the atoms are hitting each other on a 2d plane not a 3ed one so many many less factors to account for. loose protons and what not would be the end of all life before it starts most likely
 
As I know, the life forms in a 2 (space) dimensional space could never become complex for the simple reason that a 2-dimensional life form with a mouth and a bottom would split in half. However, something like an amoeba could still possibly exist. I think read this from a book by Michio Kaku. I don't remember exactly where, but it might have been "hyperspace", or "parralel worlds" and possibly from Brian Greene's "The elegant universe". However, you must realize that all of this is purely speculative, and assumes that life would have to be just like ours, but there are about a million ways life could adapt to survive in 2 dimensions. If you don't find it there just look through modern popular science books on string theory and higher dimensions.
 
  • #10
2-d beings would logically have to be energy based
 
  • #11
not possible. cells wouldn't be able to perform osmosis without floating away from other pieces of itself
 
  • #12
whos to say that an energy based being could be able to fathom the complexitys of organic beings (aka think non caporal)and likewise whos to say we could understand the complexitys of an energy based being. considering there isn't even a unified field theory YET whos to say that there would even be cells considering that it would have to be energy based not cell (organic) based.
 
  • #13
This thread is getting to a point where it is about to get away from us. It is appropriate then that I remind people about PF Guidelines of posting in here, in case people forgot, or didn't know such a thing exists (since there are many new members participating in this one).

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=5374

Zz.
 
  • #14
Try to design an organism that is able to have more than one opening, now try to imagine it operating in any sort of complex manner and you would have answered the question for yourself.

Dont forget to have connecting components that are not solid but hollow (as channels i.e. 2D analogue of blood vessels).
 
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  • #15
We've all been avoiding the fundamental fact that atoms and the components thereof, plus leptons and bosuns, are 3D, so I think that pretty much rules out anything existing in Flatland.
 
  • #16
Danger said:
We've all been avoiding the fundamental fact that atoms and the components thereof, plus leptons and bosuns, are 3D, so I think that pretty much rules out anything existing in Flatland.

Not so, leptons and quarks are treated (approximated) as 0 dimensional point particles.
 
  • #17
For the sake of simplicity in calculations, that is proper. In physical reality, however, the wave functions that define them have to exist in more than 2D. Even if that 3rd dimension is almost infinitely small, it still has to be there. (Okay, this is a little out of my area, but I can't conceive of a true mathematical point actually having physical reality. I have the same feeling about singularities. If there's contrary evidence that I've overlooked, please elaborate.)
 
  • #18
is it possible to have anything at all without a density for it. that's what the 3rd demetion would determine right?
 

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