Scary Site I saw on a bumper sticker

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a website promoting anti-vaccine sentiments, particularly in relation to statistics from the CDC on flu and pneumonia deaths. Participants explore the historical context of vaccines, personal anecdotes, and the concept of herd immunity, while questioning the motivations behind vaccine hesitancy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses frustration over a bumper sticker promoting a website that they find alarming, questioning the relationship between flu and pneumonia deaths as presented by the site.
  • Another participant critiques the reliance on anecdotal evidence in the website's narrative, contrasting it with the historical consequences of vaccine-preventable diseases like polio.
  • A participant shares personal experiences of childhood diseases and emphasizes the importance of vaccines, acknowledging that while vaccines are generally safe, they are not without risks.
  • Discussion on herd immunity highlights that a vaccination coverage of around 95% can prevent outbreaks, benefiting even those who are unvaccinated.
  • Concerns are raised about the mindset of individuals who reject vaccines, with speculation about whether such beliefs stem from mental illness or a lack of rational thinking.
  • Clarification is provided regarding the relationship between flu and pneumonia, with a participant suggesting that while flu does not directly cause pneumonia, it can lead to conditions that make individuals more susceptible to secondary infections.
  • Another participant reflects on the historical impact of diseases like polio, indicating a generational gap in experiences with such illnesses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of vaccines and the historical context of vaccine-preventable diseases. However, there are competing views regarding the motivations behind vaccine hesitancy and the interpretation of statistics related to flu and pneumonia deaths.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect personal experiences and opinions rather than established facts, and there is a lack of consensus on the psychological factors influencing vaccine hesitancy.

russ_watters
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I'm really not a violent person, but seeing a bumper sticker with this site on it made me want to use my car as a weapon.

www.thinktwice.com

Any biologists able to regain their composure enough to comment...?

One specific question - the site links the CDC national vital statistics report, which shows 257 flu deaths, 61,777 pneumonia deaths, and also has them mixed together. Is this because they are related illnesses/the flu causes pneumonia?
 
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Oh dear...

"Personal Stories: Heart-wrenching personal stories by parents whose children were harmed by vaccines."
Woo, anecdotal evidence... I wonder if they accept heart wrenching personal stories by parents whose children were harmed by polio. I reckon there'd be a lot around if they had their way.
 
Yes, most of you are to young to have watched Polio march down your street, or had kids in your class die of measles. For the most part vaccines are good. But they are not 100% safe, they never claimed to be. But my children never lost a friend to childhood disease, like I did.
I was well aware of the risks of vaccines, before making the choice to have my children immunized. The information has been avalible for well over 25+ years.
 
The CDC aims for something like 95% coverage on vaccinations against the most debilitating diseases. Once "herd immunity" is established, an outbreak can't really take hold.

We and our kids benefit not only directly from vaccinations, but we also benefit from the fact that 95% of those around us are vaccinated. They won't be coughing diphtheria or pertussis, on us, for example.

The 5% who don't vaccinate still benefit from the 95% around them that do, for the same reason. They could get sick, but are unlikely to for the simple reason that the etiological agent can't get a foothold in the community.

I have more of a problem with the "conspiracy mindset" in general (the mindset that predisposes people to think that the moon landing was faked etc) than with a small percentage of individuals choosing to forego vaccination. If they think there is a conspiracy, that bothers me. The fact that their kids aren't vaccinated, doesn't.
 
pattylou said:
The CDC aims for something like 95% coverage on vaccinations against the most debilitating diseases. Once "herd immunity" is established, an outbreak can't really take hold.
This also helps protect those who get vaccinated, but for whom the vaccine doesn't work...for whatever reason.

I have more of a problem with the "conspiracy mindset" in general (the mindset that predisposes people to think that the moon landing was faked etc) than with a small percentage of individuals choosing to forego vaccination. If they think there is a conspiracy, that bothers me. The fact that their kids aren't vaccinated, doesn't.
I often wonder if there's a mental illness that predisposes people to believing these outlandish conspiracy theories, or if they're just plain stupid and incapable of thinking things through rationally.

hypatia said:
Yes, most of you are to young to have watched Polio march down your street, or had kids in your class die of measles. For the most part vaccines are good. But they are not 100% safe, they never claimed to be. But my children never lost a friend to childhood disease, like I did.
I was well aware of the risks of vaccines, before making the choice to have my children immunized. The information has been avalible for well over 25+ years.
There was a display case in the lobby of the building I used to work in. It was a dedication to Sabin, the person who developed the oral polio vaccine. It included photos of children stricken with polio, old leg braces, and copies of letters he received from children all over the world thanking him for his vaccine. It does sicken me a bit that there are parents who will choose to put their child's life at risk over some conspiracy theory about vaccines. It seems to me they aren't acting in the best interest of the child and perhaps aren't mentally stable enough to be raising that child.
 
russ_watters said:
One specific question - the site links the CDC national vital statistics report, which shows 257 flu deaths, 61,777 pneumonia deaths, and also has them mixed together. Is this because they are related illnesses/the flu causes pneumonia?
I only skimmed the site, so didn't see that part. The flu doesn't cause pneumonia, but it would leave them with irritated/raw airways from the coughing that makes them susceptible to secondary infections, such as pneumonia.
 
hypatia said:
Yes, most of you are to young to have watched Polio march down your street, or had kids in your class die of measles.

Yeah, I'm too young to have seen that. I've heard my grandma talk about it before though. Sounded terrible, and I'm glad that most people have had the sense to immunise.