Calculating Casimir-Force: Zero Point Oscillation vs Virtual Particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the Casimir force, exploring the relationship between zero point oscillations in quantum field theory (QFT) and virtual particles in quantum electrodynamics (QED). Participants examine how these concepts relate to the Casimir effect and the Lamb shift, focusing on theoretical interpretations and calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the Casimir force can be calculated using both zero point oscillations in QFT and virtual particles in QED, questioning the equivalence of these approaches.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the relationship between QFT and QED, noting that QED is a specific type of quantum field theory.
  • A participant describes the calculation of the Casimir force as resulting from pressure differences due to virtual photons, asserting that this method yields the same result as calculating it from energy differences related to zero point oscillations.
  • There is a mention of the Lamb shift being explainable through both zero point oscillations affecting electron positions and through vacuum polarization and vertex corrections involving electron-positron interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects a lack of consensus, with participants expressing different levels of understanding and interpretation of the relationship between zero point oscillations and virtual particles. Some participants seek clarification, indicating that the topic remains contested and unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined the terms used, and there may be assumptions regarding the familiarity with QFT and QED. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or conceptual steps involved in the calculations mentioned.

Kruger
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We can calculate the Lamb-shift in two ways. In order of zero point oscillation in QFT or in order of perturbation done by virtual particles in QED.

We can calculate the Casimir-Force in two ways. In order of zero point oscillation in QFT or in order of perturbation done by virtual particles in QED.

So in what way are zero point oscillations of the electromagnetic field and virtual photons the same. I mean virtual photons as vacuum fluctuations, i.e. vacuum bubbles.
 
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Isn't there somebody who know this?
 
Come on, somebody must know ist. Any master in QED? :smile:
 
Hi Kruger, I'm a bit confused by your post. I assume QFT means quantum field theory, but they aren't two different theories, QED is a particular quantum field theory. In particular, one can interpret vacuum fluctuations in terms of fluctuating photon number. I don't think I understand what you're asking, could you help me out?
 
Hi Physics Monkey, may be you can take a look to this thead. A similar question was raised there, but it was formulated with more detail. There are some answers but it seams that none of them were completely satisfying.
 
My question is the following.

We can explain the Casimir-Effect in terms of virtual photons and in terms of zero point oscillations. In case of virtual photons I can calculate a pressure between the two parallel plates (outside the plates are "more" photons allowed than between). If I then calculate out of this pressure the Casimir force I get the same result as I would calculate the Casimir-force in order of energy differences coming from zero point oscillations.

We can explain the Lamb-shift in two ways. First: I can say that the electric field of the zero point oscillations perturbe the electrons position in the H-atom. Thus there is a change in the potential energy of the electron.
But I can also make another approach, if I calculate the vacuum polarization, vertex correction, ... between the interacting electron and positron in the H-atom and will get a result.

Do you understand now why I ask this question?
 

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