HM am i not allowed to use this method? Finding the determinant vs row reduce

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of linear equations using different methods, specifically focusing on the determinant and row reduction techniques. The equations presented are not in a square matrix form, which raises questions about the applicability of certain methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the possibility of using cofactors and determinants despite the system not being square. Questions arise about the implications of using an augmented matrix versus the coefficient matrix. Some participants discuss Cramer's Rule and its conditions for applicability.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing insights about Cramer's Rule and the nature of the matrices involved. There is a mix of understanding and clarification regarding the methods, with some participants expressing a preference for row reduction while others consider the theoretical aspects of determinants.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the augmented matrix is not square, which complicates the use of certain methods. There is also mention of the need for non-singular matrices when applying Cramer's Rule, highlighting the conditions under which these methods can be used.

mr_coffee
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Hello everyone, I would rather find the cofactors and find the determinant than row reducing this, but is it possible, its not square! But our teacher is acting like its possible, so it must be! here is the equations:
x+y+z = 4
2x-y+4z=9
3y-z = 1

so i got:
1 1 1 4
2 -1 4 9
0 3 -z 1

a 3x4! but is there anyway for me to solve the following system other then row reduction or augmenting it with the idenity matrix? Thanks!
 
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mr_coffee said:
Hello everyone, I would rather find the cofactors and find the determinant than row reducing this, but is it possible, its not square! But our teacher is acting like its possible, so it must be! here is the equations:
x+y+z = 4
2x-y+4z=9
3y-z = 1
so i got:
1 1 1 4
2 -1 4 9
0 3 -z 1
a 3x4! but is there anyway for me to solve the following system other then row reduction or augmenting it with the idenity matrix? Thanks!

Sure there is. Use Cramer's Rule, where's a link:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CramersRule.html
 
It's not square because you are using the "augmented" matrix.

The matrix representing the coefficients is square- its 3 by 3. The augmented matrix is not square because it has the right hand side of the equations added as a 4th column.
 
So if i don't augment it, will i still get the correct value if i use cofactor expansion? what do i with the other set of vectors t hough? the vectors that are = [4 9 1]^T
 
Have you understood how Cramer's rule works?
You always work with the coefficient matrix. To find the n-th unkown, you replace the n-th column in the coefficient matrix ("A") by the column of the constants ("B") and you take its determinant and divide it by det(A). You do this for each unkown. Realise that this only works for non-singular (so regular) matrices A, since det(A) can't be 0.
 
Ohh, I had no idea that's what cramer's rule really ment. Thank you! I'll see if I can figure these out and get the right values. When you say its gota be singular, what would be a case when i couldn't apply the determinant?
 
Last edited:
awesome, that works, but i just found out that row reduction is the fastest, unless its going to be a big one!
 
Cramer's rule is generally not of computational interest... however, it is good to know because it can be pretty handy for proving theorems.
 

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