Are There Non-Photonic 'Telescopes' for Studying Astrophysical Objects?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of non-photonic telescopes for studying astrophysical objects, exploring various detection methods beyond traditional light-based telescopes. Participants consider different types of detectors, including neutrino telescopes, gravitational wave detectors, cosmic ray observatories, and even unconventional ideas like sonic and olfactory telescopes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention neutrino telescopes, particularly AMANDA and Super-K, as potential tools for astrophysical observation.
  • Gravitational wave detectors like LIGO are noted, although no astrophysical detections have been made yet.
  • The Pierre Auger Observatory is discussed as a possible detector of cosmic rays, with some debate about its classification as a 'telescope'.
  • LOFAR is identified as a radio telescope, but there are conflicting views on whether it can be classified as a cosmic ray detector.
  • Participants suggest including dust-collectors and rovers as potential non-photonic observation tools.
  • Some mention that dark matter detectors might theoretically provide direction information for non-photonic objects.
  • There are humorous contributions about building sonic and olfactory telescopes, with participants sharing anecdotes and jokes about their experiences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on what constitutes a non-photonic telescope, with no consensus on the classification of certain detectors like LOFAR and the Pierre Auger Observatory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the effectiveness and categorization of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the capabilities and classifications of various detectors depend on specific definitions and assumptions that are not fully explored in the discussion.

Nereid
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Being a light-hearted discussion! :smile:

There are the neutrino telescopes, of which AMANDA is my favourite (though only Super-K has detected (imaged is too strong a term) any astronomical object ... yet).

There are the gravitational wave detectors, of which LIGO gets all the attention; no detections of anything astrophysical ... yet. Of those planned, I think http://lisa.jpl.nasa.gov/ is the most exciting.

While not exactly a 'telescope', the Pierre Auger Observatory might 'see' a point source before tooo long.

AFAIK, the only other 'cosmic ray telescope' that might detect point sources is http://www.lofar.org/p/geninfo.htm , but it's very early days for that.

Did I miss any?
 
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As far as I know LOFAR (Low Frequency Array) is a radio telescope. And I think the Pierre Auger does basically detect photons from Cerenkov radiation (I may be wrong).
 
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One might consider including dust-collectors (like http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/") and rovers. There are also many dark matter detectors being deployed, which could theoretically detect a variety of non-photonic objects.
 
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While not un-photonic, low frequency surveys [like LOFAR as hellfire mentioned] will map the universe to great depths and resolve many current issues. But, like Nereid, I can't wait for a neutrino telescopes to go online.
 
hellfire said:
As far as I know LOFAR (Low Frequency Array) is a radio telescope. And I think the Pierre Auger does basically detect photons from Cerenkov radiation (I may be wrong).
LOFAR is indeed a detector of radio photons.

However, it should also be an extraordinarily http://www.lofar.org/p/ast_sc_cosmicrays.htm ! To quote: "The primary observable is the intense radio pulse that is produced when a primary CR hits the atmosphere and produces an Extensive Air Shower (EAS). An EAS is aligned along the direction of motion of the primary particle, and a substantial part of its component consists of electron-positron pairs which emit radio emission in the terrestrial magnetosphere (e.g., geo-synchrotron emission).[/color]"

Pierre Auger is "... a "hybrid detector," employing two independent methods to detect and study high-energy cosmic rays. One technique is ground-based and detects high energy particles through their interaction with water. The other technique tracks the development of air showers by observing ultraviolet light emitted high in the Earth's atmosphere.[/color]"

There are several (imaging) air cherenkov telescopes (e.g. http://magic.mppmu.mpg.de/index.en.html , H.E.S.S., Cangaroo), but they are photon detectors (hundreds of GeV to TeV gammas).

I thought about dust collectors, and also those folk who tirelessly analyse meteors trajectories, looking for interstellar visitors among the locals http://aquarid.physics.uwo.ca/meteoroids2004/program.html , see Session 10); I guess they are a kind of telescope.

I guess that, in principle, at least some of the DM detectors might provide direction information. Anyway, as ST says, there are several, an initial list:
http://cdms.berkeley.edu/
http://hepwww.rl.ac.uk/ukdmc/project/project.html (at least four different types of detector!)
http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/non_acc/dm.html
http://www.astro.columbia.edu/~lxe/XENON/
http://www.oxford-instruments.com/SCNRMP33.htm

Whew, more than I expected to find!
 
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I built a sonic telescope a while back. Haven't managed to pick up anything extraterrestrial yet. :rolleyes:
 
Danger said:
I built a sonic telescope a while back. Haven't managed to pick up anything extraterrestrial yet. :rolleyes:
Not even Message in the Sky ?

I'm disappointed. :smile:

Garth
 
What a hoot! :smile:

I'll have to get bigger headphones for my 'scope and try again.
 
Danger said:
What a hoot! :smile:
I'll have to get bigger headphones for my 'scope and try again.
Let me know your observing schedule, and I'll try to keep my guitar amp turned down during those periods. I hate light pollution, but I never considered that someone might be observing in the audio frequencies. :-p

Anybody here building an olefactory telescope? :rolleyes:
 
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  • #10
Thanks, Turbo. I wish more people were that considerate.:smile:

My cousin did indeed attempt observing with a smelloscope a few years ago. Unfortunately, when he got his first serious sniff of vacuum he expired. :frown:
 
  • #11
Danger said:
My cousin did indeed attempt observing with a smelloscope a few years ago. Unfortunately, when he got his first serious sniff of vacuum he expired. :frown:
I am devastated! The olefactory properties of the vacuum could not possibly have led to your cousin's demise, but my old hiking boots... How can I live with myself?
 
  • #12
Well... if he was spying on you hiking instead of doing what he was supposed to be, he got what he deserved.
 

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