Can you make a reasonable argument against reason?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of making a reasonable argument against the notion of reason itself. Participants explore the implications of reasoning, the nature of logical beliefs, and the relationship between reason and morality.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how one can construct a "reasonable" argument against "reason," suggesting it may be a paradox or riddle.
  • One participant introduces a self-referential statement, “It is not the case that this sentence is true,” and asks about its truth value and implications for the law of the excluded middle.
  • Another participant reflects on the subjective nature of reason, proposing that what is deemed reasonable can vary based on individual perspectives, particularly in moral contexts.
  • Concerns are raised about the limits of reason, with one participant suggesting that not all necessary actions can be reasoned through, implying that reason may not always be essential.
  • Some express uncertainty about the meaning of "against reason," with one participant suggesting it could involve illogical reasoning.
  • Another participant shares a feeling that humans have historically engaged in irrational actions for survival, indicating that rationality may depend on context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of reason and its limitations, with no consensus reached on how to argue against reason or the implications of such an argument.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining "reason" and the challenges in discussing its limitations, with some statements remaining vague or open to interpretation.

Jonny_trigonometry
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Can you make a reasonable argument against reason?
 
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Is this some sort of zen riddle? How does one make a "reasonable" argument agianst "reason"? lol
 
against reason in general or a certain "logical" belief?
 
Jonny_trigonometry said:
Can you make a reasonable argument against reason?

How about this:

“It is not the case that this sentence is true.”

Is this sentence true or not? And what implications does this have for the law of the excluded middle?
 
hehe, I like it.

You may ask, what do I mean by this? expecting a reasonable answer from me, when the idea I'm presenting is concerned with reason being not entirely "reasonable".

I was thinking along the lines of reason being in the eye of the beholder. For example, suppose I reason things through perfectly and conclude that I should kill myself? (sorry to sound harsh, but just for the sake of this conversation).

I suppose I'm also concerned with morality, in that not all things can be reasoned through, and therefore not all things that must be done are reasonable. If not all things that are neccesary are reasonable, then reason isn't always neccesary. (Here I am trying to provide a reasonable argument against reason, when I don't think it's possible)

I do think that an unreasonable argument can be made against reason, and that it can be necessary, it may not make sense, but that's the point, it can't if it's trying to argue against reason.
 
what do you mean by "against reason"?
 
U mean giving reason illogically??
 
I don't even know what I mean. I just get a feeling that humans have had to do irrational things in order to survive. I suppose everythng is rational within some particular scale.
 

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