Accuracy in Space: Can 10000kg Bolts & Nuts be Precisely Screwed?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter dev_arora_13
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Accuracy Space
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of screwing a 10,000 kg nut and bolt, each measuring approximately 0.7 km, very precisely in space, particularly considering their rotation at a speed of 0.5 RPM. The conversation explores the implications of current technology, engineering challenges, and the practicality of such large components in a space environment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the practicality of launching such large components into space, noting that size may be a more significant issue than weight.
  • Others suggest that while it may be possible to screw the nut onto the bolt in space, the initial launch of such large items presents considerable challenges.
  • A few participants speculate that the question may be metaphorical, relating to spacecraft docking rather than literal nuts and bolts.
  • Concerns are raised about the engineering feasibility of a 0.7 km nut and bolt, with suggestions that welding might be a more appropriate method of fastening for such large structures.
  • One participant calculates the density of the proposed nut, highlighting that it would be unreasonably low compared to known materials, raising questions about its composition.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the design requirements for such large fasteners, suggesting that no engineer would design components of that size.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of the proposed nut and bolt scenario. Multiple competing views exist regarding the practicality of launching and using such large components in space, as well as the appropriateness of using nuts and bolts versus other fastening methods.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in assumptions about the size and material properties of the proposed components, as well as the unresolved nature of the engineering challenges posed by such large structures in a space environment.

dev_arora_13
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
my question is about the availability of present technology

is it possible to screw a nut & bolt very ,very pricisely in space.
each of them will be of 10000kg and about 0.7km
most important-they will be rotating at a speed of 0.5 RPM
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
dev_arora_13 said:
my question is about the availability of present technology
is it possible to screw a nut & bolt very ,very pricisely in space.
each of them will be of 10000kg and about 0.7km
most important-they will be rotating at a speed of 0.5 RPM
That's the strangest question I have ever seen..:confused:
But, yes, we could screw the nut onto the bolt in space. What we can't do is get them into space in the first place..:cry:
 
Actually, we could get them into space using present technology. For low Earth orbit, the Russian Energia has a payload of close to 200,000 pounds and the Saturn V maxes out at about 285,000 pounds.
 
turbo-1 said:
Actually, we could get them into space using present technology. For low Earth orbit, the Russian Energia has a payload of close to 200,000 pounds and the Saturn V maxes out at about 285,000 pounds.
It's not the weight, it's the size. The OP said 0.7 km, which is 2296.587927 feet long. That would be a tough liftoff...:rolleyes:
 
dev_arora_13 said:
my question is about the availability of present technology
is it possible to screw a nut & bolt very ,very pricisely in space.
each of them will be of 10000kg and about 0.7km
most important-they will be rotating at a speed of 0.5 RPM
I'm not sure what you mean by "very precisely". Can you give some examples of putting them together imprecisely? You mean like, banging together?


It seems to me that the biggest problem you'd have putting them together would be orbital mechanics. Their CoMs are in slightly different orbits. This is the problem the first apollo Soyuz docking missions had.
 
dev_arora_13 said:
is it possible to screw a nut & bolt very ,very pricisely in space.
each of them will be of 10000kg and about 0.7km
Along the lines of what Labguy mentioned - the size mentioned here is rather impractical. No engineer in his or her right mind would design a structure requiring a 700 m nut or bolt!
 
Last edited:
Just speculation, but perhaps the OP is talking about docking and the nut and bolt are just analogies for the spacecraft and station. Just a wild guess, though...
 
russ_watters said:
Just speculation, but perhaps the OP is talking about docking and the nut and bolt are just analogies for the spacecraft and station. Just a wild guess, though...
That sounds reasonable. On the other hand, something the size of 700m is not going to be launched in one piece for Earth's surface, but rather it will be assembled on orbit.

Just do the calculation on air resistance at typical launch velocities!

Also a large structure would have much smaller docking ports.
 
Labguy said:
It's not the weight, it's the size. The OP said 0.7 km, which is 2296.587927 feet long. That would be a tough liftoff...:rolleyes:
Oops! I jumped on the trivial mass problem. I guess we could make a 0.7 km bolt that would pop into shape like a shock-corded tent pole, but why on Earth would the nut need to be 0.7 km in its largest dimension? Again though, if it needed to be a nut with 0.7 km of threaded contact area (more of a long threaded tube) we could engineer something that would fold down to a launchable size. A single monolithic cast and machined object? Nope - we can't do it.

Perhaps the OP can enlighten us as to why the question was posed in this way?
 
  • #10
Anything that requires a nut and bolt that big should probably be welded instead.
 
  • #11
Or velcro! :-p :devil:
 
  • #12
Danger said:
Anything that requires a nut and bolt that big should probably be welded instead.
lol... that's just what I was thinking. A nut and a bolt are nice general solution to fastening two things together. No need to re-invent the wheel. There's lots of sizes available.

But at 0.7km, you are re-inventing the wheel. It would probably be better to weld a stop onto a non-threaded shaft.
 
  • #13
dev_arora_13 said:
my question is about the availability of present technology
is it possible to screw a nut & bolt very ,very pricisely in space.
each of them will be of 10000kg and about 0.7km
most important-they will be rotating at a speed of 0.5 RPM

What is this nut supposed to be made of, anyway?

If it is 350 meters in radius, and 100 meters thick (about 1/7th of it's diameter, which seems to be in the right ballpark) it will have a volume of 38,484,510 meters^3. With a mass of 10,000 kg, that's a density of .0002 kg/m^3.

Water has a density of 1000 kg / m^3, air at standard temperature and pressure has a density of 1 kg/m^3. This nut has a density that's much lower than that of air!

Steel would have a density of about 8000 kg / m^3, or perhaps a little less.
 

Similar threads

Stargazing Can distance in space be measured by human systems?
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
Use math to prove which lab equipment was precise/accurate?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Graduate Can Quantum Logic Techniques Be Applied to Complex Molecular Ions?
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
Undergrad How Can We Measure Properties of Distant Planets and Stars?
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
Graduate Stealth and detection in space: Continued
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Graduate How Can We Harness the Power of Space Elevators and Atmospheric Electricity?
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Undergrad Some questions about absorption lines
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Undergrad What Are the Key Challenges Preventing Us from Occupying Space?
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
Graduate Centrifugal Spaceship Accelerator
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Specified Torque Specs on Automotive Fasteners -- Required or just suggestions?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
5K