This is not contradictory. Please here me out. Zeilinger is testing entanglement within the subsets we've discussed, where there's a specific entangled state, e.g. phi- (a quarter of the aggregate data). Each P14 in this subset is certainly in this entangled state and no one is questioning...
This is a different point. You could also argue temperature is not the same thing as polarization of course.
I think you already agreed above that the aggregate of all BSM results is the same as the aggregate of all SSM results. Do you still believe that? If so, then you must agree that...
I understand this, but I don't agree it's plays a role in an argument towards retro causality. This is just like the temperature example I gave in post #15. Temperatures were very likely different in the 4 different seasons (different statistics), but that doesn't mean that revealing the...
Check out the explanation for figure 3--that difference again is after picking out a subset of the tests (the subset in which P23 was measured to be phi-, presumably about a quarter of the BSM-enabled tests).
My claim: if you give me Ma's test results with SSM-enabled (no P14 entanglement), I...
I understand a Bell state is entangled, but the uniform mixture of all 4 of them is not. The density matrix of this mixture is just a multiple of the identity matrix.
Regarding the state of P14 being above
What is the state of P14, given the state of P1234 is as provided in the Ma paper...
Copy, let me read it. Is this paper y'all are referring to: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.4834 ?
The uniform mixture of the 4 Bell states is separable (not entangled).
Looks like you are saying P23 is (|V2>+|H2>) x (|V3>+|H3>) which is a pure state. I'm rusty on this stuff, but given that P23...
I may be differing from your opinion due to a different definition of "effect the data." Here's an analogy trying to highlight my view.
We receive 1000 temperature readings at location X on Earth, spread throughout the year 2023. I can do statistics on these and see e.g. the average...
I'm hearing "no agreement" but then looks like agreement in the following sentence. So we agree the BSM has no effect on the statistics of the entire set of measurement results?
Yes, agree. I think everything here is in agreement with what I was trying to say.
The main point I was trying to...
I may not be following you. You agree that the total of all results (not looking at P23) are the same regardless of a BSM on P23, right? (I understand that if a BSM is done on P23 and you look at the subset of P14 results with a specific P23 result you get correlations of the associated Bell...
No, I just meant the explanation about how the total of all results measured on P14 are the same whether or not you do the BSM on P23; you only see "Bell correlations" when you pick subsets of the P14 measurements associated with a specific P23 BSM result. This partially demystifies the delayed...
Are you seeing an apparent retro causation from P23 measurements back to P12 measurements? If so, do you mind pointing it out more specifically? I'm not seeing it at first, looks like the usual explanation of delayed choice type experiments could be applied here, no?
OK, so this is the main question behind this thread. I don't understand what they ARE saying. Alice and Bob make space-like separated measurements which they can physically record, but RQM says the correlations don't exist yet. Alice and Bob meet up and compare their recorded measurements and...
Regarding the list of possible ways to achieve Bell violations, I'd listed the 2 things above, but forgot to include the possibility discussed in post 8 above:
This 3rd option is what I'm guessing RQM proposes, but still unsure. The idea is that correlations change after the space-like...