Why did I struggle so much in high school?

[WWGD]

It says a lot about the education system that we spend billions and billions of dollars on it each year, yet we don't even know how some students succeed while others don't

Actually, in many cases, an increase in funding doesn't result in improved outcomes in terms of grades, graduation rates.

 

[gleem]

So what should I have done differently?

That is not the question you should be asking. Actually, you should not be asking any questions; you should be doing something. Right now, confidence seems to be the biggest problem.

You are not a bad student, It is possible that your class has more excellent students than is normal. Maybe the school was not the best for you. That is all water under the bridge. The question is: should I take a chance and continue my education and see if you were just dealt a bad hand? Enroll in a community college and set a goal. Set up a course of study that you think you can handle. Evaluate your performance after a year. This will also give you an opportunity to determine what else you might be able to pursue even if it isn't your favorite.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

They just said I wasn't smart enough and that not everyone is suitable for academics, which wasn't encouraging for me

Not being smart enough is very different from not being suitable for academics. There are lots of very smart people living happy and satisfying lives, working in trades and other careers. Making lots of money, too.

You asked what you did wrong in K-12. Nothing. Perhaps it was what was done to you. Did you grow up with an adult in your life, a parent or other relative or neighbor, who taught you how to work with your hands using tools?

We have this mindset in our culture that making a living working in the trades means you are somehow weak in the mind. It's just not true. I've worked as a carpenter with lots of very clever people from many different trades. I learned a lot from them. I also learned a lot from my K-12 teachers and my college professors and fellow students. The two are not mutually exclusive.

There are plenty of academics who don't know the first thing about handling tools or equipment.

And others have mentioned other career options as well. Academia is not for everyone. Nor should it be.

 

[CrysPhys]

Are you aware of any disability you may have?

I was tested for learning disabilities, but the psychologist couldn't find anything.

Have you asked the Psychologist their opinion?

They just said I wasn't smart enough and that not everyone is suitable for academics, which wasn't encouraging for me

@randomranger900 . If you do plan to pursue further classroom education, it would probably be worthwhile to first get re-evaluated by appropriate medical and educational specialists to determine whether you have any underlying physical or mental conditions that would impede your progress.

 

[symbolipoint]

CrysPhys responds with this:

@randomranger900 . If you do plan to pursue further classroom education, it would probably be worthwhile to first get re-evaluated by appropriate medical and educational specialists to determine whether you have any underlying physical or mental conditions that would impede your progress.

Just in case, he may choose or find the option that, nothing is wrong with him.

 

[CrysPhys]

Just in case, he may choose or find the option that, nothing is wrong with him.

Yes. The whole point is to determine whether or not there are underlying conditions first, and then decide how best to proceed. Three possible outcomes: (1) no underlying conditions, (2) one or more underlying conditions, all treatable, (3) one or more underlying conditions, at least one non-treatable. You would want to do this before expending time and money enrolling in more courses.

 

[symbolipoint]

An online article which I am losing patience reading but might be interesting for O.P. or anyone suitably interested:

https://whats-your-iq.com/en/articles/career-intelligence/iq-vs-common-sense-which-matters-more

 

[bhobba]

Gee mate, my HS was all over the place, and I never got better than B's and C's (not that I particularly cared). I forged ahead in what interested me: math and its applications to electronics, then computing, and finally physics (especially quantum physics and, to a lesser extent, relativity).

Find the beat of your inner drum; let that drive you, and the rest will take care of itself. I waited a couple of years to mature before going to university, did a degree in applied math (including computing) while working in a nowhere entry-level job (but they paid my university fees and gave me time off). With my inner drum and studies aligned, I was a straight honours student and was headhunted for a job before graduation.

Now I am 71, and in an assisted living facility; you know what I remember of my possibly misspent youth? Going on long walks with my then best friend around Mt Cootha in Brisbane, Australia, and Mt Tamborine in the so-called Scenic Rim near Brisbane. I wonder what those who got all A's in HS remember?

Now is the time to enjoy your youth and discover your passions. The future will take care of itself. B's and C's are good enough to get into a decent university.

Thanks
Bill

 

[randomranger900]

@randomranger900 . If you do plan to pursue further classroom education, it would probably be worthwhile to first get re-evaluated by appropriate medical and educational specialists to determine whether you have any underlying physical or mental conditions that would impede your progress.

They said I have no learning disabilities

 

[CrysPhys]

They said I have no learning disabilities

The question is who are the "they" and when did "they" say that. You previously responded:

I was tested for learning disabilities, but the psychologist couldn't find anything.

So was the "they" just one psychologist from long ago?

You don't need to answer this. But again, if it were me, I would get re-evaluated (for both potential physical and mental issues) before expending time and money on further courses. How you wish to handle this is entirely up to you.

 

[mathwonk]

This is another piece of advice hard to articulate and hard to follow, but potentially useful. Namely, in order to understand material in a course, you have to try to understand it, not just try to memorize the facts. It helps me, after going through everything, to spend a lot of time pouring over it mentally and trying to boil down all the extensive material to just a few key ideas and facts. I then look back to see if the rest of the material does follow more easily and directly from the things I have designated as essential.
Once you think you have understood a topic, it also helps to try to explain your insights to someone else. This will help expose places where your own understanding has gaps.

 

[symbolipoint]

I took a review of my comments in this topic, and I think I emphasized this enough: Study a course, or more of them, MORE THAN JUST ONCE so that you would learn the material better upon the repeated study.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

Namely, in order to understand material in a course, you have to try to understand it, not just try to memorize the facts.

The way of explaining this that resonates with me is a comparison of sense-making with answer-making. When studying or practicing or doing homework, ask yourself this: Are you trying to make answers or are you trying to make sense of the material?

I always focused on sense-making and was amazed at how many are answer-making. Answer-making is a short-sighted strategy that wastes your intellect. Sense-making builds a foundation, expanding your mind and exercising your intellect.

Sadly, there are students who think sense-making is a waste of time. They think the entire reason for expending effort is to get a higher grade by making the correct answers on exams.

 

[bhobba]

They said I have no learning disabilities

They thought I did. But our family physician, who was also qualified as a psychiatrist (he was transitioning until he had enough psychiatric patients to do only that), disagreed. He was spot on in his diagnosis - I was only interested in what interested me and was disengaged from formal schooling. I wasn't failing (although I did fail Year 12 English, so didn't formally graduate HS, but where I went to university was fine with that - I was doing math, not English literature), so what's the big deal? My math and science teachers both knew I was way beyond my grade level, having taught myself calculus at 13.

I had found my passion; you only need to find yours. B's and C's are fine in the interim. It will get you into a decent college, apprenticeship, cadetship, or traineeship. Once you find your passion, things will be a lot clearer.

Thanks
Bill

 

[sbrothy]

Why not? Why wouldn’t taking practice exams help in history or literature?

While that is possible, test taking is also a skill that can be learned. So if you understand the material and just literally struggle to demonstrate on tests, then that could be addressed.

If you didn’t understand the material even after putting in the work then that would be different.

This may sound harsh and I dont want to discourage the OP but although I agree with the value of learning test-taking I have to ask if you want someone competent or someone good at taking tests to take care of a nuclear plant?

 

[Dale]

I have to ask if you want someone competent or someone good at taking tests to take care of a nuclear plant?

For taking care of a nuclear plant I would unambiguously want someone who is both competent AND good at taking tests.

 

[CrysPhys]

This may sound harsh and I dont want to discourage the OP but although I agree with the value of learning test-taking I have to ask if you want someone competent or someone good at taking tests to take care of a nuclear plant?

You need someone who is both competent and is good at taking tests (assuming that competent engineers need to pass required certification tests in order to be employed at a nuclear plant).

ETA 1: I see that Dale just responded before me.

ETA 2: There are many professions that require both competency and the ability to pass exams because candidates need to pass exams to qualify for training in the first instance or need to pass exams after training for certification to practice legally.

 

[sbrothy]

Sorry. I just had to ask. I have a tendency to being blunt and/or arrogant. I’m working on it.

EDIT: The arrogant part is ironic as I have nothing to show for it.

EDIT2: Also, I suspect your answers are the only ones that make sense. :)

 

[sbrothy]

You need someone who is both competent and is good at taking tests (assuming that competent engineers need to pass required certification tests in order to be employed at a nuclear plant).

ETA 1: I see that Dale just responded before me.

ETA 2: There are many professions that require both competency and the ability to pass exams because candidates need to pass exams to qualify for training in the first instance or need to pass exams after training for certification to practice legally.

And yeah, the education never really stops if you want to stay current. Courses, conferences, certifications…. It’s a moebius loop. :)

 

[CrysPhys]

And yeah, the education never really stops if you want to stay current. Courses, conferences, certifications…. It’s a moebius loop. :)

Yes, this is reality. A friend of mine really, really wanted to become a medical doctor. In the US, you need to attend medical school; and in order to be admitted to medical school, you need to score well in the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT). Her undergrad GPA was reasonable; she had extensive experience working as an assistant in doctors' offices; and she had good letters of recommendation. But she just couldn't score high enough in the MCAT. Three medical schools she applied to told her that if she could get her MCAT score above a threshold value, she would be welcome. But after two exam prep courses and a total of 4 tries, she still couldn't meet the threshold score. She finally gave up, applied for a program as a physician's assistant, and got accepted. She's made peace with herself.

 

[gleem]

@randomranger900 I, we should have asked at the beginning: what are you currently doing, and why, after six years, did you decide to seek advice about learning? Besides having sought advice about a learning disability, who else have you talked with regarding your concerns?

 

[CrysPhys]

we should have asked at the beginning: what are you currently doing, and why, after six years, did you decide to seek advice about learning?

These two questions have been asked in one form or another, but the OP never answered (other than the OP is now a technician, with no further details).

 

[vela]

In high school, I mostly got Bs and Cs despite studying hard. I went to every class, took notes, did all the homework, participated in every discussion, asked questions, went to tutoring, did a lot of problems in the textbook, and more. Despite all of that, I still always bombed exams and could only get 50-60%. I struggled in every subject. It doesn't matter if it was math, physics, chem, history, or literature. No matter what I did, I just couldn't succeed academically.

Part of this could simply be not knowing how to learn. Many students run into this in college when they take a STEM course, pour in hours of effort, and still only earn a C. Their lack of success is not due to a lack of effort, which is what many professors unfortunately assume, but students wasting enormous amounts of time using ineffective studying methods.

The way of explaining this that resonates with me is a comparison of sense-making with answer-making. When studying or practicing or doing homework, ask yourself this: Are you trying to make answers or are you trying to make sense of the material?

I always focused on sense-making and was amazed at how many are answer-making. Answer-making is a short-sighted strategy that wastes your intellect. Sense-making builds a foundation, expanding your mind and exercising your intellect.

Sadly, there are students who think sense-making is a waste of time. They think the entire reason for expending effort is to get a higher grade by making the correct answers on exams.

I've made this point to many classes, and it seems to fall on deaf ears quite often. Old habits die hard. It's unfortunate that the educational system in the US tends to incentivize earning points to get good grades rather than understanding the material, so many students naturally focus on what to do to maximize the number of points they earn rather than on making sense of what they're supposed to be learning.

Occasionally, I run into a student who recognizes that their old study habits don't cut it anymore, they actually change their approach to learning physics, and their grades subsequently improve.

 

[gleem]

I see where I missed what he is doing now. I also see that he was not notified of my post. That has been corrected.

I don't know how we can be helpful without knowing more about what is on his mind and what other efforts he has made to try to answer his questions.

@vela makes a good point but that will require someone to work directly with him to make significant progress IMO.

 

[niklasngp9]

I see where I missed what he is doing now. I also see that he was not notified of my post. That has been corrected.

I don't know how we can be helpful without knowing more about what is on his mind and what other efforts he has made to try to answer his questions.

@vela makes a good point but that will require someone to work directly with him to make significant progress IMO.

It's an incredibly complex issue. I hope the OP finds his/her path in life. All the best.

 

[niklasngp9]

Actually, rereading it, I'm impressed with the amount of wisdom dispensed. Then again that's what the forum is about. :)

 

[CrysPhys]

I don't know how we can be helpful without knowing more about what is on his mind and what other efforts he has made to try to answer his questions.

I totally agree. In particular, several of us asked the OP how well they learn particular skills (such as hands-on skills) outside of a structured classroom environment, and whether it's their intent to attend college. No response. There has been a lot of informative personal anecdotes and a lot of useful recommendations based on certain assumptions. But whether these personal anecdotes are analogous to the OP's situation and whether the certain assumptions apply to the OP's situation is unknown, given the OP's lack of response.

 

[PeroK]

Actually, rereading it, I'm impressed with the amount of wisdom dispensed. Then again that's what the forum is about. :)

Is it wisdom? This forum typically projects an honour student capability on everyone. Leaving the thorny issue of why someone who tried their best should ever fail. The politically correct get out is learning disabilities. Without a medical diagnosis, however, things are hard to explain.

We didn't evolve to sit in a classroom and digest academic material. I don't see it as the be all and end all of human endeavour.

 

[haushofer]

In high school, I mostly got Bs and Cs despite studying hard. I went to every class, took notes, did all the homework, participated in every discussion, asked questions, went to tutoring, did a lot of problems in the textbook, and more. [...] So what should I have done differently?

Nothing. I'd say you did an excellent job. It's just that apparently you expected more from the results.

How would you respond to someone who's e.g. doing athletics, trained hard, went to every training, was open to improvement and walked after all those years of hard work a marathon within 4 hours while he wanted to run it in 3,5?

But maybe you could improve your results by some simple adjustments, or you have some sort of learning disorder, but I guess a professional should find that out.

 

[sbrothy]

Is it wisdom? This forum typically projects an honour student capability on everyone. Leaving the thorny issue of why someone who tried their best should ever fail. The politically correct get out is learning disabilities. Without a medical diagnosis, however, things are hard to explain.

We didn't evolve to sit in a classroom and digest academic material. I don't see it as the be all and end all of human endeavour.

Well yes and no. Noone expects all of us to Ivy League students ( or at least I hope not because then I’d fall very very short). But I’m adamant that good answers (excluding my own) have been given in this thread.