News NK Attack on SK: International Community Response Needed

[g33kski11z]

<link>
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/nkorea.skorea.military.fire/index.html?hpt=T1

I'm curious, I know that NK likes to 'provoke' the US & SK, but isn't this a tad bit more than 'usual"?

.. how long should the international community wait before something (besides sanctions) are done?

 

[russ_watters]

Yes - the last attack was done in secret, so it couldn''t be absolutely proven N. Korea did it. This time, there was no question and they acknowledged it. That's surprising to me.

I don't think the international community has the stones to do anything real, so it will require tanks rolling across the border before they do anything more than some sanctions.

 

[g33kski11z]

Do you think its more of a 'show of force' considering the imminent change in command there?

 

[FlexGunship]

I don't think the international community has the stones to do anything real, so it will require tanks rolling across the border before they do anything more than some sanctions.

First thing I thought! While everyone is talking about how dumb NK is, all I could think is: "they're totally going to get away with this."

Frankly, they should already be eating MOABs right now.

 

[g33kski11z]

That was my thought too...

.. I wonder what other countries think they could do and 'get away with' ...

say China.. with respect to Taiwan..

 

[Jack21222]

<link>
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/nkorea.skorea.military.fire/index.html?hpt=T1

I'm curious, I know that NK likes to 'provoke' the US & SK, but isn't this a tad bit more than 'usual"?

.. how long should the international community wait before something (besides sanctions) are done?

I can't speak for the international community, but I think the United States should stay out of it. This is in China's neighborhood, let them police their backyard.

 

[Astronuc]

I can't speak for the international community, but I think the United States should stay out of it. This is in China's neighborhood, let them police their backyard.

Then again, the US has forces in SK, so they are kind of stuck in the middle of this situation.

And - S. Korea Could Seek Deployment of US Tactical Nuclear Weapons !
http://www.voanews.com/english/news...of-US-Tactical-Nuclear-Weapons-109819069.html

I don't know if that statement precipitated the NK's artillery bombardment, or was in response to the attack.

Way to escalate conflict.

 

[FlexGunship]

Way to escalate conflict.

It's a sad truth that sometimes the best way OUT of a conflict is to push it as hard as you can. Escalation (despite its name) doesn't always lead to more violence.

Having said that, North Korea is probably the type of country to react violently to this type of "provocation".

 

[Astronuc]

or maybe this was it - N Korea angry at US deployment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2842351.stm

 

[g33kski11z]

Then again, the US has forces in SK, so they are kind of stuck in the middle of this situation.

.. That's kind of what I was getting at.. our forces (at least some) are there, what would they do, just turn their collective heads away or leave? (I can't see that, not that I can see China moving on Taiwan either, but still)

 

[rootX]

There cannot be done much without the help of China/Russia.

 

[mugaliens]

N. Korea Shells S. Korean Island

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101123/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_clash" .

But I hate letting bullies get away with murder much, much more.

 

[zomgwtf]

Honestly, good on North Korea for not backing down. South Korea can't just do whatever the hell it pleases because it' backed by the USA and no one likes NK.

I place the blame for this situation firmly on SKs shoulders if I lived in a country where war was ongoing and the enemy fired anything remotely close to my nation I would expect my nation to shoot back. They gave warning but of course whylisten to NK since they'll look like the bad guys anyways?

 

[g33kski11z]

..if I lived in a country where war was ongoing and the enemy fired anything remotely close to my nation I would expect my nation to shoot back..

Then couldn't the whole middle east attack the US?

.. I think there is a difference between an 'act of war' and a training exercise..

 

[FlexGunship]

We're kind of all missing the point. The island that NK shelled (Yeonpyeong) is one that they claim ownership to anyway (including the waters around it).

It seems like a territorial dispute that is looking for any excuse to be settled militarily.

Training exercise or not, this dispute will continue to happen until the two sides can agree on who owns what.

 

[zomgwtf]

Then couldn't the whole middle east attack the US?

.. I think there is a difference between an 'act of war' and a training exercise..

If the entire middle east attacked the US I wouldn't be particularly surprised.(Aside from some extremely weak nations relative to USA attacking the USA)

I don't think there's any difference in this situation. They knowingly and deliberately disregarded NKs demands to stand down in disputed waters. They are currently in a war with each other and stuffs always happening. It's not surprising at all that NK retaliated.

 

[FlexGunship]

I don't think there's any difference in this situation. They knowingly and deliberately disregarded NKs demands to stand down in disputed waters. They are currently in a war with each other and stuffs always happening. It's not surprising at all that NK retaliated.

There's a good point in here. In fact, North Korea actually sent a message to South Korea at 8AM local time telling them not to hold their 10AM training exercise.

Maybe the question is whether or not the training exercise was "legal" by the Korean rules of engagement.

 

[FlexGunship]

The Wikipedia section on "International Reaction" is almost humorous to read: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Yeonpyeong#International_reaction).

Sweden — Foreign Minister Carl Bildt commented on his blog, calling the incident "very worrying" and for China to "use the full extent of its influence over Pyongyang to affect its regime."[33]

(Emphasis added.)

Sweden's a great place and all, but they've got to stop getting their government officials from the local coffee shop.

 

[CAC1001]

Then again, the US has forces in SK, so they are kind of stuck in the middle of this situation.

And - S. Korea Could Seek Deployment of US Tactical Nuclear Weapons !
http://www.voanews.com/english/news...of-US-Tactical-Nuclear-Weapons-109819069.html

I don't know if that statement precipitated the NK's artillery bombardment, or was in response to the attack.

Way to escalate conflict.

IMO, North Korea is the one escalating the conflict, as they are seeking nuclear weapons.

The way to pressure North Korea is through China, as China supplies NK with a lot of their food, electricity, and so forth. The way to pressure China is to seriously allow Japan and South Korea to become nuclear-armed (as the last thing China wants in particular is a nuclear-armed Japan).

 

[Newai]

I doubt the appropriate response to military exercises is to attack and kill soldiers and civilians.

 

[g33kski11z]

I don't think there's any difference in this situation. They knowingly and deliberately disregarded NKs demands to stand down in disputed waters.

There's a good point in here. In fact, North Korea actually sent a message to South Korea at 8AM local time telling them not to hold their 10AM training exercise.

..and what if Iran told Israel to 'stand down' from their training..? (or the US for that matter) .. or is that fact that they're in disputed waters make a difference...?

 

[FlexGunship]

..and what if Iran told Israel to 'stand down' from their training..? (or the US for that matter) .. or is that fact that they're in disputed waters make a difference...?

This.

The problem with boundary disputes is that people assume sides based on existing political alliances. What if North Korea really does have claim to that island? I'm not saying that do, I'm just posing the question.

At least North Korea started by talking.

(Note: I have a passionate hatred for North Korea and their human rights policies. I'm just trying to have a dispassionate discussion.)

EDIT: What if Canada laid claim to the Aleutian Islands and then planned to hold an artillery demonstration there? I KNOW this is a bad example, but someone somewhere (in North Korea) feels this is a really really good example. It's important to try to understand militaristic and political motivations.

 

[Jack21222]

.. That's kind of what I was getting at.. our forces (at least some) are there, what would they do, just turn their collective heads away or leave? (I can't see that, not that I can see China moving on Taiwan either, but still)

I'm a big believer that the United States should shut down most, if not all, of its foreign military bases. This would include the ones in South Korea. I don't think we can afford to play world police.

 

[g33kski11z]

I'm a big believer that the United States should shut down most, if not all, of its foreign military bases. This would include the ones in South Korea. I don't think we can afford to play world police.

eh, I don't agree completely. If we are allies with a country & we want bases there (and the 'host nation' has no issue) I see no reason we shouldn't ...

I do agree we shouldn't be the 'world police', but as a super power, we do have some obligation to try and 'keep peace' were we can..

The problem with boundary disputes is that people assume sides based on existing political alliances. What if North Korea really does have claim to that island? I'm not saying that do, I'm just posing the question.

Point taken. I'm not an expert (or even knowledgeable enough) to know who's the 'rightful' owner of the island is, but it just seems to be a provoking action by NK..Edit: thanks Flex..

 

[FlexGunship]

Point taken. I'm not an expert (or even knowledgeable enough) to know who's the 'rightful' owner of the island is, but it just seems to be a provoking action by BK..

Burger King has a history of provocation.

 

[zomgwtf]

..and what if Iran told Israel to 'stand down' from their training..? (or the US for that matter) .. or is that fact that they're in disputed waters make a difference...?

It makes a whole world of difference. Coupled by the fact that they are (for the 3rd time) in a war with each other still.

I dislike North Korea for many reasons but I'm not going to let that bias my judgement in a situation. If South Korea wants to invade and conquer North Korea go for it but if North Korea is defending itself and standing it's ground even in for 'exercise' don't expect me to cry foul play.

As well no civilians were killed just 2 soldiers (in South Korea) so if any civilians DID die it would be North Koreans from the artillery exchange that occurred from the south. So this how it went:

South Korea planned a military exercise in known disputed territory.
North Korea says no, do not conduct a military exercise in this territory.
South Korea says, lol stop me and conducts their exercise which involved firing of weapons in said disputed territory.
North Korea retaliates against South Korea.
South Korea retaliates against North Korea for it's retaliation.

People died. Now if we go all the way back from who was wrong who was right the first wrong which started everything was South Korea conducting the exercise in the disputed territory after being told not to.

You bet your bottom dollar that if America had some disputed territory with another nation and was at war with that nation and that nation conducted a military exercise in the water that the American army would **** those people up. Straight away.

 

[Jack21222]

eh, I don't agree completely. If we are allies with a country & we want bases there (and the 'host nation' has no issue) I see no reason we shouldn't ...

I do agree we shouldn't be the 'world police', but as a super power, we do have some obligation to try and 'keep peace' were we can..

Completely disagree. We are not a superpower, and we have no obligation to try and "keep peace." Where does this supposed "obligation" come from? Also, what is the definition of "superpower," and why does the US qualify?

I also disagree about the bases. How would you like a South Korean military base in Kansas? A German military base in Florida? A Kuwaiti military base in California? It's incredibly arrogant for the United States to just plant bases in other peoples countries.

There was a point in this country's history where we didn't even keep a standing army in our own country. Now we keep a standing army during peacetime in other peoples countries.

And I pay for it with my taxes. Wonderful.

 

[Newai]

It makes a whole world of difference. Coupled by the fact that they are (for the 3rd time) in a war with each other still.

snip

At war, sure. But isn't the "retaliation" for the exercises a violation of the Korean Armistice Agreement?

 

[mheslep]

Then again, the US has forces in SK, so they are kind of stuck in the middle of this situation.

And - S. Korea Could Seek Deployment of US Tactical Nuclear Weapons !
http://www.voanews.com/english/news...of-US-Tactical-Nuclear-Weapons-109819069.html

I don't know if that statement precipitated the NK's artillery bombardment, or was in response to the attack.

Way to escalate conflict.

It seems to me that the time and place for surprised or frown faces was earlier:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...d-is-worst-against-civilians-in-20-years.html

A South Korean soldier was killed and 13 others injured after North Korea fired dozens of artillery shells onto a South Korean island setting more than 60 houses ablaze and sending civilians fleeing in terror.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-53094520101123

(Reuters) - The reported sighting of more than 1,000 centrifuges at North Korea's main nuclear complex appears to confirm it is working to create a second source of arms-grade nuclear material.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62P30E20100326

(Reuters) - A South Korean naval ship sank near the disputed maritime border with North Korea, killing some of the more than 100 crew on board,

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/09/n_korea_nuke_test/

North Korea this morning carried out a successful underground test of a nuclear weapon, news agencies report.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E3DD1538F933A1575BC0A96F958260

UNITED NATIONS, Aug. 19— North Korea appears to be emerging from a prolonged severe famine with the help of international food aid, but four terrible years of hunger from 1995 through 1998 may have cost the country two million to three million lives,

and NOT in response to the first action likely to have any real effect on N. Korea and its sponsor, China.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I also disagree about the bases. How would you like a South Korean military base in Kansas? A German military base in Florida? A Kuwaiti military base in California? It's incredibly arrogant for the United States to just plant bases in other peoples countries.

Our presence is keeping at least a few countries from being invaded. Japan would be in big trouble if we removed our troops, I think SK as well. If NK attacks SK with our troops inside, NK knows they are finished real quick.

And I pay for it with my taxes. Wonderful.

Keeping peace and standing up for freedom, yeah what a horrible thing to spend money on. I don't get the American attitude of hoarding everything for ourselves and building a dome over our country. We are all globally in this together. We are all brothers and sisters.