Question regarding dark energy and accelerated expansion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of dark energy and the accelerated expansion of the universe, specifically exploring whether modifications to gravitational force at large distances could account for this phenomenon. Participants examine alternative theories of gravity and the implications for the necessity of dark energy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Randall Rosenthal proposes that if the gravitational constant were lower at large distances, it might explain the accelerated expansion, questioning the need for dark energy.
  • One participant mentions MOND as an alternative theory of gravity that suggests gravity becomes stronger with distance, countering the initial proposal.
  • A later reply acknowledges that modified gravity theories have been considered, noting that while they require extensive modeling, observations tend to align more closely with dark energy than with modified gravity.
  • Another participant argues that if gravitational force were diminished at large distances, it would not explain the universe's acceleration, suggesting that a repulsive force must be responsible for the expansion, referencing theories like WIMP and axion assumptions.
  • One participant critiques another's argument as confusing and unrelated, indicating a lack of clarity in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of gravitational force modifications and the necessity of dark energy, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on assumptions about the nature of gravity and dark energy, and the discussion includes references to various theoretical frameworks without reaching consensus on their validity or implications.

rrosenthal
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Question regarding dark energy and accelerated expansion. If gravitational force were somehow diminished at large distances----ie lower gravitational constant at huge distances--might this explain the increase or accelerated expansion seen. If this were true, would it be necessary to evoke a completely separate factor--ie dark energy --to explain this. For this to be even considered , one would have to humbly admit that not all is known of gravity-----less of a leap than the same statement re dark energy----?

Randall Rosenthal
 
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This is not a simplifying explanation. We already have MOND as an alternative theory of gravity that predicts it becomes stronger with distance.
 
rrosenthal said:
Question regarding dark energy and accelerated expansion. If gravitational force were somehow diminished at large distances----ie lower gravitational constant at huge distances--might this explain the increase or accelerated expansion seen. If this were true, would it be necessary to evoke a completely separate factor--ie dark energy --to explain this. For this to be even considered , one would have to humbly admit that not all is known of gravity-----less of a leap than the same statement re dark energy----?

Yup... People have thought of that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F(R)_gravity
http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.5266

The next step would be to come up with models of modified gravity (dozens of theorists doing pages and pages of math), figure out exactly what observations you should see with modified gravity (more theorists doing more pages and pages of math), and the punchline is that the observations look more like dark energy than modified gravity, but modified gravity isn't totally dead yet.
 
As you already know that in general relativity, dark energy arises due to a comparitively large value of the cosmological constant, But the complete explanation of dark energy is beyond the direct scope of general relativity. When you say that-" If gravitational force were somehow diminished at large distances----ie lower gravitational constant at huge distances--might this explain the increase or accelerated expansion seen. If this were true, would it be necessary to evoke a completely separate factor--ie dark energy --to explain this?". If you consider gravity alone, then if G is small at large distances, it would only reduce the effect of gravity. But, this doesn't explain why the universe is accelerating. If we assume your point to be true then the universe should now be in a steady state. BUT IT IS NOT. Therefore, there must be a repulsive force responsible for the expansion. This gives rise to the WIMP theory,axion assumption(i.e nambu-goldstone theorem) etc.
 
Er ... your point is not even wrong, but, is an unnecessarily confusing mix of unrelated ideas.
 

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