Did You See This Texas Lightning Storm?

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the phenomenon of lightning storms and associated cloud formations, particularly focusing on mammatus clouds and their implications for severe weather. Participants share images and experiences related to these weather events, including references to the "mothership" cloud formation observed in Australia. Additionally, the discussion touches on the scientific theories surrounding the cause of thunder, highlighting the work of P. Graneau and the complexities of electrodynamic forces involved. The conversation also includes humorous exchanges and personal anecdotes about weather experiences in various locations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of meteorological phenomena, specifically mammatus clouds and their formation.
  • Familiarity with the scientific theories regarding thunder, particularly the work of P. Graneau.
  • Knowledge of cloud types and their implications for severe weather forecasting.
  • Basic comprehension of electrodynamics as it relates to atmospheric phenomena.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the characteristics and formation of mammatus clouds and their significance in severe weather.
  • Study the scientific literature on the causes of thunder, focusing on P. Graneau's findings.
  • Explore the concept of electrodynamic forces in atmospheric science and their role in lightning formation.
  • Investigate the various types of cloud formations associated with severe weather, including supercells and tornadoes.
USEFUL FOR

Meteorologists, weather enthusiasts, and anyone interested in understanding severe weather phenomena and the science behind lightning and thunder.

Ivan Seeking
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Compliments of Coast to Coast AM
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page474.html

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/storm0511a.jpg

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/storm0511b.jpg
 
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Physics news on Phys.org
How about the following I once found on photo.net, the formation is called a mothership and this was shot in Australia, probably a moment before a tornado touched down..
http://home.student.uva.nl/monique.vandervoet/storm.jpg
 
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Speaking of lightning, I looked up the cause of thunder for another thread, and found out that the conventional explanation of the expansion of superheated air is in dispute:

"J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 22 (14 August 1989) 1083-1094
The cause of thunder
P Graneau
Center for Electromag. Res., Northeastern Univ., Boston, MA, USA
Abstract. The cause of thunder is one of the oldest riddles of recorded scientific speculation. Three centuries BC Aristotle published the first thunder theory. Many other theories were proposed until at the beginning of the present century a consensus evolved which assumed thunder must begin with a shockwave in air due to the sudden thermal expansion of the plasma in the lightning channel. The only experimental support for this theory came from spectroscopic temperature determinations up to 36000 K. Any one of the assumptions made in equating 'optical' to thermodynamic temperatures can be challenged and some have been disputed. Experiments with short atmospheric arcs of lightning strength revealed average arc pressures in excess of 400 atm and peak pressures approaching 1000 atm. These results demand much higher temperatures than those found by lightning spectroscopy. Furthermore, when the strength of the short arc explosions was plotted against the action integral of the current pulse it followed an electrodynamic law rather than a heating curve. Arc photography then proved conclusively that the plasma did not expand thermally in all directions, but preferentially at right angles to the current, as if driven by organised electrodynamic action. Possible electrodynamic forces which might drive the thunder shockwave are the Lorentz pinch force, the longitudinal Ampere force and the alpha-torque force of the Ampere-Neumann electrodynamics. The pinch force was found to be far too small and in the wrong direction to be the cause of thunder. Longitudinal and alpha-torque forces act in the correct direction but, so far, quantitative agreement has not been achieved. This may have to wait for a complete Ampere MHD"

The cause of thunder
Address:http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0022-3727/22/8/012/
 
Not nearly so dramatic as Monique's pic, these unusual clouds were seen just before some tornadic activity in the Midwestern US.

Mammatus Clouds

These rare clouds (see below) appeared above our St. Louis, Missouri home just prior to a thunderstorm, early evening on 5/6/03. Mammatus are appendages that protrude from the bottom of strong cumulonimbus clouds (the tallest type of clouds), and are indicative of water weight.

--Steve Gilmore
gpdco@swbell.net

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/mclouds1x.jpg
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/mclouds2x.jpg

Again, from coasttocoastam.com

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page139.html
 
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a couple of side notes:

As for Zooby's post, this all relates to our other discussion about spark gaps - the evolution of lightining is also a bit of a mystery. I know I have a book that talks about this but I haven't found it yet.

Monique, that is an awesome shot!

Finally, Tsu and I used to hang a bit with an ER doc [Mark] who happened to have a BS in physics. Mark and I were talking about lightning one day and I pointed out that in principle, if one was to wear an appropriately constructed metal suit, a person could take direct hits by lightning will no ill effects.

Mark wanted to try it!

This is the same guy that threw his kids into the car and rushed over to the coast to experience some 90 mph winds. :eek:
 
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Monique said:
How about the following I once found on photo.net, the formation is called a mothership and this was shot in Australia, probably a moment before a tornado touched down..
Now that is scary! :surprise:

(so happy to have the old smilies back)
 
I saw mammatus clouds in Minnesota once. "Mammatus" means "breast shaped".
 
zoobyshoe said:
I saw mammatus clouds in Minnesota once. "Mammatus" means "breast shaped".
What's with your recent 'breast' fixation, Zoob? :surprise: :biggrin:
 
Tsunami said:
What's with your recent 'breast' fixation, Zoob? :surprise: :biggrin:

I guess Zoobies like Boobies. :biggrin:

I loved those storm pics. I was just back in Houston a few weeks ago and I got to experience some of the magnificent thunder and lightning storms that I have missed living out here in So. Cal for the last 10 years.
 
  • #10
Tsunami said:
What's with your recent 'breast' fixation, Zoob? :surprise: :biggrin:
"Mammatus clouds only occur in the vicinity of severe thunderstorms and supercells.
They are named after 'mammaries' because of their peculiar 'mammary'-like appearance."

Mammatus Clouds
Address:http://www.john-daly.com/TwistedPhotos/albums/album9030305051414110131/
 
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  • #11
...similar in their naming convention to the Altocumulus Testicularis formations.
 
  • #12
Meteorologists must see some weird breasts...
 
  • #13
zoobyshoe said:
"Mammatus clouds only occur in the vicinity of severe thunderstorms and supercells.
They are named after 'mammaries' because of their peculiar 'mammary'-like appearance."

Mammatus Clouds
Address:http://www.john-daly.com/TwistedPhotos/albums/album9030305051414110131/
That's your answer? :smirk:
 
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  • #14
Tsunami said:
That's your answer? :smirk:

What's my answer? After the mammatus clouds appeared over Minneapolis there was an article about them in the paper the next day that explained what they were, and the origin of the name. Mammatus = mammary.

Latin Word Lookup
Address:http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=mamma&ending=tus
 
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  • #15
zoobyshoe said:
What's my answer? After the mammatus clouds appeared over Minneapolis there was an article about them in the paper the next day that explained what they were, and the origin of the name. Mammatus = mammary.

Latin Word Lookup
Address:http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=mamma&ending=tus
Never mind, Zoob. Go back to sleep... :biggrin: :devil:
 
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  • #17
Monique said:
How about the following I once found on photo.net, the formation is called a mothership and this was shot in Australia, probably a moment before a tornado touched down..
http://home.student.uva.nl/monique.vandervoet/storm.jpg
[/URL]
That is an awesome photo, Monique. It's like the revenuers coming to town... :biggrin:
 
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  • #18
Is that photo from photo.net for real??!? :eek: If so what's the name of that formation, I would like to learn more about it.
 
  • #19
That looks terrible ! but i believe it to be a true one !
 
  • #20
Miles said:
Is that photo from photo.net for real??!? :eek: If so what's the name of that formation, I would like to learn more about it.
It's called a mothership cloud formation seen during heavy storms.
 
  • #21
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  • #22
That looks like something from the movie The Philadelphia Experiment.

Very cool Monique! :-p
 
  • #23
Ivan Seeking said:
That looks like something from the movie The Philadelphia Experiment.
It does, but the line that came to me was from another film: I can just imagine the first mate ringing up the captain and saying "I think we need a bigger boat."
 
  • #24
:smile: :smile: :smile:

That hit my funny bone! I nearly spit coffee all over my laptop!

A news flash just in from the netherworld: Alien motherships are the cause of large thunderstorms.
 
  • #25
Ooo very nice. It's hard to get good lightning pics, or any good weather pics for that matter. It took me about an hour and about 20 tries to get this one.
 

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  • #26
Ivan Seeking said:
I nearly spit coffee all over my laptop!
Evo reported the same sort of near-calamity once from something I said. Someday, I vow, I will get someone to destroy an expensive computer.
 
  • #27
Its thundering and lightning right now. Doesn't look nearly as cool as those pics though =(
 
  • #28
More Zooby clouds

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/cotton_candy_sky_lg.jpg

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page516.html
 
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  • #29
The bay area has no interesting weather. :( We have fog, but I'm really not sure if you can call that "weather." It's certainly not interesting anyway, unless you happen to be flying through it in a small aircraft.

- Warren
 
  • #30
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