Can Quantum Mechanics Explain the Effects of Astrology on Human Genetics?

[quantumcarl]

The Physics of Astrology thread was deleted so I thought I'd get it up again for y'all. (Isn't that special )

If you have any data concerning this topic please post it here. It was mentioned by some of the previous posters that there may be a certian amount of influence, as complicated as it may be and as miniscule as it may be, from each and every celestial object within a certain radius of the planet earth. The Sun being one of the most influencial.

What I concluded, temporarily, was that the effects of all the gravitational and mineral and so on sources surrounding our planet on human genetic and hormonal constitution could be explained by way of Quantum Mechanics and other theories like String theory. In these postulates the concept of distance and time are nulified and this would facilitate an understanding of how the physical effects of a distant star could effect the tiny birth of an infant human,here on earth.

Any further discussion on this topic would help to illuminate the concept of "The Physics of Astrology".

 

[Kerrie]

this is the kind of thread i love...anyone have any questions regarding the astrology theory, ask them here and i will be happy to answer the best i can from the 12 years of observing people, reading and studying in an astrological perspective...

 

[Gale]

i'm reading a book about mayan prophecy and it's co written by a man name cotterel. he did a lot of research about astrology and sun spots. I'm not too far into the book, but there was a part about astrology not being based on stars, but merely the path of the sun. the stars just being a backround. also there was something about astrology is really about conception and not the birth, and like how sun spots or something about the suns magnetic field affects the fetus. but i'll reread some and read some more, and get back to ya's.

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Gale17
i'm reading a book about mayan prophecy and it's co written by a man name cotterel. he did a lot of research about astrology and sun spots. I'm not too far into the book, but there was a part about astrology not being based on stars, but merely the path of the sun. the stars just being a backround. also there was something about astrology is really about conception and not the birth, and like how sun spots or something about the suns magnetic field affects the fetus. but i'll reread some and read some more, and get back to ya's.

astrology is based on the path of the Earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

natal astrology at conception cannot work because free will begins at birth, the moment the child is no longer 100% dependent on her mother...

the natal chart is a blueprint of tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, the human soul has free will to either follow these (which is what most do), or has the free will to learn about herself and exercise the strengths and strengthen the weaknesses...

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Kerrie
astrology is based on the path of the Earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

natal astrology at conception cannot work because free will begins at birth, the moment the child is no longer 100% dependent on her mother...

the natal chart is a blueprint of tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, the human soul has free will to either follow these (which is what most do), or has the free will to learn about herself and exercise the strengths and strengthen the weaknesses...

How much "free will" can an organism have when the constraints and laws of the universe determine its very physical property?

I don't think using the term "free will" or the resulting semantic debates that come with that term will serve as a resource in formultating a type of physics that explains Astrology.

I would think it would be far better to actually discover and formulate the physics going on behind the influences ascribed to what is known as Astrology.

Since a personality trait and a life path are both determined by physical elements (suchas: genetics, molecular arrangements, morphologies, endocrinology, environment, chemistry... etc.) then, what is it about the physical presence and constitution of planets, suns, arrangements of solar systems (ie: constelations) etc. that effects the above mentioned physical attributes of living organisms?

Is there a physics formula or formuli that explain the relationship of cause and effect between celestial bodies and terrestrial organisms and their observable traits?

 

[Dal]

Physics that explains astrology? Wow...

 

[Kerrie]

quantumcarl...astrology is only theory at this point and an art that uses the physical locations of the planets/sun and intuition in interpreting how these aspects REFLECT human tendencies, otherwise the topic wouldn't be in mystics and psuedo science if there was a scientific explanation in our current understanding of our world

it is based on the law of correspondeces which is:

as above, so below
as within, so without
as the universe, so the soul


those who practice astrology honestly realize what force moves the celestial bodies also moves us...we are all connected to the universe (whether we can "see" it or not with our tool of science), and the cycles of the planets and celestial bodies in motion reflect what is going on within ourselves...

this is the closest we one can come to the scientific explanation of astrology, as it is not a science...it is a tool used to study the cycles of reflection of the heavenly bodies to our souls...trying to explain gravitational pull on us in forumuls and such will only "disprove" it even more...the best form of proof is to study it for yourself...i consider myself someone who questions as much as possible, and astrology never ceases to amaze me in how well it can pinpoint reflections...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Kerrie
this is the kind of thread i love...anyone have any questions regarding the astrology theory, ask them here and i will be happy to answer the best i can from the 12 years of observing people, reading and studying in an astrological perspective...

I have always had an informal interest in this even though I have never been inclined to truly believe in the phenomenon. This does not mean that I dismiss it either. I really wouldn't try to define my "beliefs" on this subject.

What is thought to be the underlying energy or concept that enables this to happen? I hear people talk about energy and frequencies. Is there an accepted language for this idea? How does it happen? [I don't mean a scientific explanation]

How many variations of this art form exist? [Is art form an OK term to use without insulting anyone?] Are there different schools of thought that compete and argue - like we do here?

How much relevance do you feel that this has in our lives? For example, how much different is someone's life as a function of "following" astrology for guidance?

Do you feel that astrology could simply represent a greater set of harmonics? Not that the planets and such actually affect our lives, but rather that they act like clocks or meters: thus acting to measure some greater unrealized source of influence? For example, [this is just a wild what if- no attacks please] let's assume that ZPE in this region of the universe varies due to several factors that we don't understand. Let’s further assume that variations in the ZPE effects human behavior "among other things". If some periodic pattern exists that causes these changes in the local ZPE, then these might coincide with other observed periodic patterns. So even though we assign a cause and effect relationship to the planet's positions, they are really just telling us our phase in the ZPE cycle. Do you feel that an explanation such as this could exist - all specific references aside? If not, why?

 

[Gale]

astrology is based on the path of the Earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

natal astrology at conception cannot work because free will begins at birth, the moment the child is no longer 100% dependent on her mother...

the natal chart is a blueprint of tendencies, strengths and weaknesses, the human soul has free will to either follow these (which is what most do), or has the free will to learn about herself and exercise the strengths and strengthen the weaknesses...

in what I'm reading now, the guy thinks that traits such inwardness and outwardness and agression or passiveness are directly related to the sun's magnetic influence on the earth. because sunspots are cyclitic and they have a definite infuluence on the Earth's magnetic fields, he feels that they are responsible for effecting people as they grow in the womb. the growth of the fetus being directly influenced by the Earth's magnetic field, causing certain charactersistics in the full grown babe.

i guess his ideas were controversial and were poorly accepted by the astologic community. but the math about the cycles of sunspots and zodiac cycles and all that seemed ok. but again, i haven't finished reading the book, and I'm no expert on his theories.

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Kerrie
astrology is based on the path of the Earth around the sun, or the ecliptic...

I'm curious...what was the effect on the astrological community when they found out the Earth went around the sun (and not visa versa as was believed for so long)? Or I suppose that is irrelevant since only what appears along the ecliptic matters to astrologers (not the actual physics of the system).

 

[Phobos]

more curiousity...
How does an astrologer translate the physics (the mathematics of the positions of the planets and stars in relation to the Earth) into verse that reflects the human conditions. How does 1 + 2 = a tendency to be moody?

 

[quantumcarl]

Capernicus

Phobos (don't be afraid )

What really happened with the Capernicus dude?

Did he simply find documents that already stated the truth about the constitution and mechanism of this solar system?

Once he found them did he confirm them with his own well directed observations?

In many bas reliefs and heiroglyphs of the Sumerian civilization and others there are depictions of the Sun at the center of 9 planets. These were carved over 5000 years ago... give or take a few thousand years (since a dating technique for carven stone has yet to be invented).

Astrology is as old as the hills. In fact it is linked to these same civilizations I have mentioned above.

So, in answer to your question... I think that the knowledge of the mechanics of the solar system and the other celestial objects in Earth's vicinity was lost to certain groups and retained by others. Thus we see a continuance of the proper configuration of the Solar System in one milue whereas in another there is a complete ignorance with regard to spherical planets, orbits and so on.

 

[Kerrie]

ivan~

What is thought to be the underlying energy or concept that enables this to happen? I hear people talk about energy and frequencies. Is there an accepted language for this idea? How does it happen? [I don't mean a scientific explanation]

the same force that moves the planets move us...yes, its generic, but true

gale~

because sunspots are cyclitic and they have a definite infuluence on the Earth's magnetic fields, he feels that they are responsible for effecting people as they grow in the womb.

this is more of a direct impact from the sun rather then the reflection of astrology...

phobos~

How does an astrologer translate the physics (the mathematics of the positions of the planets and stars in relation to the Earth) into verse that reflects the human conditions. How does 1 + 2 = a tendency to be moody?

these interpretations are a result of studying the reflections of aspects to people's typical behaviors...when an individual becomes "aware", they begin to exercise their free will and either correct negative tendencies or strengthen positive ones...

 

[quantumcarl]

Hi Kerry

What I tend to extract from your statements here is that a quantum effect exists between people and celestial objects.

They are depending on one another to be defined. Simultaneous existence is required. Nothing comes first. People define the celestial and the celestial defines people. (as above... etc...)

This is what I get from your use of the word "reflections" when you speak of the behaviors and tendancies of people being effected by the celestial objects. This is a basic tenant of Philosophy... it deals purely with cerebral indications (concepts) and does not address the physical realm in which we find ourselves existing.

I realize there are many who see unseen forces at work, governing all of the physical plane. However there is no way in hell to prove they exist. Besides, the Physical governs the unseen as much as the unseen governs the physical... if my calculations are correct!

That's why I am going the often traveled route and looking for the actual Physics equation that describes the function, mechanism and cause and consequences inherent in an Astrological Forcast or Diagnosis of a person's physical presense.

You say astrology is only a theory. I say that at one time the whole thing was a science and has since dwindled to a psuedoscience... at least in the minds of most people.

I actually believe there already exists a ton of equations that fully explain the functions we are talking about in this thread.

Ach!

 

[Kerrie]

QC, I will rephrase what I should have stated in the beginning...
Astrology is considered a theory by scientific definition...

in my personal experience, knowledge and understanding of astrology, i feel it does reflect a great deal of the human motives...

as in reflection, i do not mean an impact of the planetary aspects to the human soul...a mirror does not affect you in your reflection, but you have the ability to see your reflection...this is how astrology works...

now as far as the physical equation for astrology...there lacks one in our current understanding of science, and that is why it is often dismissed as psuedoscience...

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
In many bas reliefs and heiroglyphs of the Sumerian civilization and others there are depictions of the Sun at the center of 9 planets. These were carved over 5000 years ago... give or take a few thousand years (since a dating technique for carven stone has yet to be invented).

I am not familiar with these images, however, I am skeptical that they are intended to represent the sun and our currently defined 9 planets. Only 5 planets (maybe 6 if you're lucky) are visible to the naked eye. No one can see Neptune or Pluto without binocs/telescope. Also, there is still a scientific debate as to whether Pluto is a planet or not. Although I am fine with calling it a planet, I have a hard time imagining that ancient cultures would attribute any significance to it compared to the rest of the solar system (of course, again, no one knew Pluto existed until about 1920).

Astrology is as old as the hills. In fact it is linked to these same civilizations I have mentioned above.

So, in answer to your question... I think that the knowledge of the mechanics of the solar system and the other celestial objects in Earth's vicinity was lost to certain groups and retained by others. Thus we see a continuance of the proper configuration of the Solar System in one milue whereas in another there is a complete ignorance with regard to spherical planets, orbits and so on.

Do you think Europeans from the middle ages used the same techniques as the ancient Sumarians? Were some astrologers right and others completely wrong? Where did current methods come from? Where are all these ancient methods recorded?

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Kerrie
these interpretations are a result of studying the reflections of aspects to people's typical behaviors...when an individual becomes "aware", they begin to exercise their free will and either correct negative tendencies or strengthen positive ones...

So, typical behaviors were applied to typical star/planet positions? (i.e., our behavior was projected/reflected onto the zodiac...kind of a seeking of correlations?)

Doesn't it get kind of confusing to know if the process is working or not if free will can overcome tendencies? Seems like a case for selective perception. i.e., whenever there is an astrological "miss", it can simply be attributed to free will.

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Phobos
So, typical behaviors were applied to typical star/planet positions? (i.e., our behavior was projected/reflected onto the zodiac...kind of a seeking of correlations?)

Doesn't it get kind of confusing to know if the process is working or not if free will can overcome tendencies? Seems like a case for selective perception. i.e., whenever there is an astrological "miss", it can simply be attributed to free will.

i am not sure to what "process" you are referring to...astrology is not a process of anything...it is a tool that reflects common tendencies of human nature with the aspects of the planets, and the art is in the interpretation of these aspects...in the instance that someone does not "match up" to the typical tendencies the chart would reflect could be attributed to personal life experience that has altered that typical characteristic...

once a person has their chart done, there can be a deeper understanding gained of personal issues, fears, dreams and patterns of behavior...astrology is a tool that helps us understand what our potentials are as well...

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Phobos
(of course, again, no one knew Pluto existed until about 1920).

Do you have a poll from a large portion of the Earth's population done during the subsequent years before 1920 to back-up your statement?

Originally posted by Phobos

Do you think Europeans from the middle ages used the same techniques as the ancient Sumarians? Were some astrologers right and others completely wrong? Where did current methods come from? Where are all these ancient methods recorded?

If I knew that I wouldn't have started this thread. Those are the types of data I require to formulate the formuli that show the physical relationships between celestial bodies and those bodies of the organisms known as humans.

 

[Kerrie]

"...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens
for one who desires to see it, and having seen it,
to find one in himself."


~plato

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Kerrie
"...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens
for one who desires to see it, and having seen it,
to find one in himself."


~plato

Thanks Kerrie.

Perhaps it is the inconsistant masses, minerals, gases and luminary qualities we can find from planet to planet... sun to sun... nebula to nebula and galaxy to galaxy that explain the differing effects on each individual. Plus you will find that each person, although 98 percent made of water, will also have an inconsistant array of minerals and chemicals when compared to the next.

One could begin to classify groups with so much of one mineral and groups with more of another... until we had a semblence of the 12 zodiacial groups... or more.

There would be much research involved where each member of each group would have to be monitored for mineral migrations or elicitation, hormonal and neurotransmiting chemicals. These observations would have to take place during specific astological phases.

The pattern that emerges from this sort (not necessarily this actual example of a set-up) may in fact reveal some of the mystery behind the processes that enable us to observe astrological accuracies.

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by Kerrie
i am not sure to what "process" you are referring to...astrology is not a process of anything...it is a tool that reflects common tendencies of human nature with the aspects of the planets, and the art is in the interpretation of these aspects...in the instance that someone does not "match up" to the typical tendencies the chart would reflect could be attributed to personal life experience that has altered that typical characteristic...

once a person has their chart done, there can be a deeper understanding gained of personal issues, fears, dreams and patterns of behavior...astrology is a tool that helps us understand what our potentials are as well...

Thanks for the explanation, Kerrie. Perhaps I'm being to objective about it (what results does astrology give and are those results accurate). Based on your description, it sounds more like a subjective way to think about one's life experiences. Not that I think astrology works, but I have a deeper appreciation for what you are doing.

 

[Phobos]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
Do you have a poll from a large portion of the Earth's population done during the subsequent years before 1920 to back-up your statement?

Good one. No, I suppose I don't. But what I have is the knowledge (mathematically and first-hand) that Pluto is too faint to be seen by naked eye along with the history of scientific discovery (astronomy) which indicates that Pluto was not discovered by telescope until 1930. (sorry I said 1920 before!)

If I knew that I wouldn't have started this thread. Those are the types of data I require to formulate the formuli that show the physical relationships between celestial bodies and those bodies of the organisms known as humans.

Fair enough. Let me know if your hypothesized mechanism for astrological forces pans out (i.e., what you mentioned to Kerrie above). So far, I don't see any way for the positions of stars, etc. to affect our lives in a manner that astrologers claim.

 

[Kerrie]

So far, I don't see any way for the positions of stars, etc. to affect our lives in a manner that astrologers claim.

i would like to know what astrologer claims this...astrology does not have any affect on anyone, it merely reflects...

 

[hypnagogue]

This is more or less a reiteration of what Kerrie has said thus far, but maybe it will clear up astrology's position a little further. I'm typing this up from a printed astrological report (sorry no links!):

------------------------------------------
Astrology is as old as measured time. Although there are many different approaches to astrology, all astrologers appear united in the idea that there is a connection between the heavens and the Earth-- they share one common space. For centuries there has been a misunderstanding concerning the nature of astrology to the effect that the heavens somehow "influence" events here on Earth. This theory of celestial influence has penetrated into the modern world until today it is the main concept or idea of astrology supported by the public-- the lay astrological audience. Professional astrologers do not hold with theories of celestial influence. Instead, the modern astrologer conceives of the heavens and the Earth as united, interpenetrating, and sharing a common space and time. The great cosmic or celestial events happening around and beyond the Earth (eclipses, lineups, and so on) are not seen as CAUSING events to occur on Earth, but as great signatures of events ALSO happening here on Earth. In other words, there is no "cause" in the heavens followed by an "effect" here on Earth. Instead, both planetary and earthly events happen simultaneously and are mutually reflective. Neither is the other here on the Earth below. While astrologers don't feel that heavenly events are the cause of events here on Earth, they do feel that specific heavenly events are enacted here on the Earth-- at the same moment. In other words, there is only one grand "play." The great drama enacted in the sky is also acted out (in exact detail) here on Earth in the same instant. Another way to say this is that the Earth is part of the cosmos and shares in that cosmic moment. Scientists have been discovering (for example) that sunspots, solar flares, and solar activity have a very definite (and almost immediate) effect here on Earth. Astrologers tend to feel that all major cosmic events such as eclipses are interactive; they represent an activity also taking place within us and our consciousness. In summary, astrology is a study of heavenly cycles and cosmic events as they are reflected in our earthly environment and vice-versa-- a vast cosmic clock. Astrologers find the cosmic patterns revealed in the rhythmic motions of the planets a great help in shedding light on the seeming helter-skelter of everyday life. Astrologers may have their heads in the heavens, but only to better guide their feet here on Earth.
------------------------------------------

Now, what I find interesting about this is that this idea of acausal, meaningful relationships is very much in the spirit of Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity. Jung observed the existence of synchronistic events, which are acausally related and highly meaningful. Typically a synchronicity involves an individual's internal mental state being mirrored by an independent, acausally related external event, hence the synchronicity's meaningful nature. I am currently reading a book which postulates that such correspondances are indications of an underlying symmetry to existence. If nothing else, the fact that Jung came up with his theory based on real life observations (presumably) independently of any inspiration from astrology, and that his theory nontheless characterizes the conceptual framework behind astrology very well, is a provocative connection. Thoughts?

 

[Kerrie]

thank you so much hypnagogue...that article was thorough in defining the message i am trying to convey about the popular myths of astrology...

 

[quantumcarl]

Kerrie: "astrology does not have any affect on anyone, it merely reflects..."

If this is the case then perhaps I can abandon my search for a physics equation or "causal relationship" between celestial objects and terraestrial objects... (other than their common origin).

If it is true that astrology is merely an group of observations regarding the reflections that correlate between the outer and the inner...then it seems that Carl Jung would be correct to assert the formula he calls "synchronicity" on to the mechanisms behind the relationships between macro-masses in the heavens and the micro-masses (endocrine organs, neurons, neurotransmitters and migrating minerals) on earth.

However, that would be like saying a baseball is a reflection of the swing of the baseball bat. And like saying that there is no formula for the interaction between the bat and the ball that explains why the baseball is in contact with the bat at one second... then is 100 yards away from it in the next second.

 

[pelastration]

not lost in space

Hi Quantumcarl.

The first Physics of Astrology was not lost:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2294&highlight=astrology

The best

dirk

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by quantumcarl
Kerrie: "astrology does not have any affect on anyone, it merely reflects..."

If this is the case then perhaps I can abandon my search for a physics equation or "causal relationship" between celestial objects and terraestrial objects... (other than their common origin).

However, that would be like saying a baseball is a reflection of the swing of the baseball bat. And like saying that there is no formula for the interaction between the bat and the ball that explains why the baseball is in contact with the bat at one second... then is 100 yards away from it in the next second.

your example of the baseball and bat is simply a cause and effect...there is direct contact between the ball and bat with the force of the free will of the person driving the bat...

astrology is the study of cycles, these cycles reflect what is below from above...an example of using mirrors explains the "process" of astrology, you can never change the reflection the mirror gives, but you can change the image portrayed into the mirror...

 

[Phobos]

Ok, if it's not a direct cause-effect thing, is there a cause to synchronicity? A spiritual third party that makes sure the balances are kept above and below? Or is synchronicity just an aspect of the universe just like space & time? Does it show up anywhere else? Can it be measured? So far I have not seen statistical evidence that astrology works*, but perhaps you would say that the tests were looking at it the wrong way.

* such as
http://www.skepsis.no/english/subject/astrology/studies.html

 

[Kerrie]

anytime one tries to see astrology as a science will not see the evidence within the boundaries of science as the natal chart is as unique as each individual...astrology is more of an art...

 

[Phobos]

It would be refreshing if more astrologers had your sense about it Kerrie. There seems to be mostly astrological predictions & horoscopes out in the public eye.

Originally posted by Kerrie
anytime one tries to see astrology as a science will not see the evidence within the boundaries of science as the natal chart is as unique as each individual...astrology is more of an art...

Is it mostly subjective then? When drawing up a chart, how much of it is a standard protocol vs. interpretation?

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Phobos
Is it mostly subjective then? When drawing up a chart, how much of it is a standard protocol vs. interpretation? [/B]

yes, the interpretations of the aspects and how they are reflective of human tendencies is subjective, but it is also regareded as an art...what is objective is the actual aspects of the planets to the Earth's ecliptic...for example when the moon is in opposition to the sun, it is literally a full moon, this can be interpretated as the ego and the spirit battling and struggling to balance one another...

 

[quantumcarl]

Just a bit neglectful of this thread... thank you all for keeping it going... Pelestration (sp) thanks for finding the old thread!

Kerrie says:

"anytime one tries to see astrology as a science will not see the evidence within the boundaries of science as the natal chart is as unique as each individual...astrology is more of an art..."

As far as I know science has no boundaries. What people call "metaphysics", by my definition, is simply a form of physics that has not been quantified, qualified, understood or correlated yet.

That's why I trust there will be a complete understanding of the mechanisms that govern astrological forecasts and diagnosises.

In fact, whomever or however astrology was formulated in the first place is the place where those equations and formulas for such a governance will be discovered. In fact there was a TLC or Discovery program called the Astrology of Atlantis aired a while ago. This, I believe, was research into the origin of the Constellations and not an expose of the intricated physics behind the subtle influences that the cosmos have on living, organic matter.

Thanks guys!

 

[Kerrie]

Carl~

I don't want to get off topic too much here, but modern science does seem to have boundaries...I find this a subject worthy of it's own topic in Philosophy...

 

[quantumcarl]

Originally posted by Kerrie
Carl~

I don't want to get off topic too much here, but modern science does seem to have boundaries...I find this a subject worthy of it's own topic in Philosophy...

Yo, good philosophy topic.
I'll look for it!

 

[Brad_Ad23]

For the past 18 years my intro to Astronomy teacher has done a survey for all incoming people into his class. It starts out with him handing out astrological surveys by order of birth (i.e. he asks people to raise their hands if they were born between such and such, to correspond with a zodiac sign). The first part of the survey is about general traits, as based off of the Astrologer's Handbook. The 2nd part is specific daily predictions as from some newspaper astrologer. He has used the exact same survey all 18 years. After the surveys are answered by the students at home, he plots the data and we see a gaussian curve. Generall about 70% of the students respond favorably (i.e. a certain trait described fits them well) for the general trait, and about 35% for the specific event (graphed on another plot since it is two different thing). So, this seems to actually support astrology doesn't it? I mean if 70% of students felt something matched them then that is pretty significant statistically. Then he throws in the kicker. He randomly handed out the papers. There was no order and as a result only about 1 in 12 actually got the correct zodiac paper. This then suggests that people will generally identify with positive traits, and the things made are vague enough to apply to anyone. Hence, astrology is nothing more than a collection of psychological tendancies of people.

As it is, my professor is having me and another student research previous studies and eventually we are going to compile all 18 years worth of data and use it to demonstrate this.

 

[pelastration]

Brad,

Nice effort of that teacher. He spent 18 years just to prove his own case. No problem.
He tries to disprove something with an analysis system based on a rate of 1/12, while the real astrology has about 10! combinations. 1/10!
I sure you will find the data he wants to find. Great job. 18 years lost! :/

Murphy's Technology Law #2:
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.

I like these thoughts, since they show a little bit of relativity:

Murphy's Technology Laws
1._____Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
2._____Whenever a system becomes completely defined, some damn fool discovers something which either abolishes the system or expands it beyond recognition.
3. Technology is dominated by those who manage what they do not understand.
4.____If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.
5._____The attention span of a computer is only as long as it electrical cord.
6._____An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.
7.____Nothing ever gets built on schedule or within budget.
8.____All's well that ends.
9.____To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer.
10._We don't know one millionth of one percent about anything.
11._Any given program, when running, is obsolete.
12.__Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
13.__A computer makes as many mistakes in two seconds as 20 men working 20 years make.
14.__To spot the expert, pick the one who predicts the job will take the longest and cost the most.
15.__A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
16.___If mathematically you end up with the incorrect answer, try multiplying by the page number.
17. ... more on http://www.geocities.com/murphylawsite/technology_laws.html

 

[Brad_Ad23]

Brad,

Nice effort of that teacher. He spent 18 years just to prove his own case. No problem.
He tries to disprove something with an analysis system based on a rate of 1/12, while the real astrology has about 10! combinations. 1/10!
I sure you will find the data he wants to find. Great job. 18 years lost! :/

No, not quite. Only 1 in 12 people actually got the astrological survey that they should have. Since there was a high correlation of success for people that got false ones, this implies that astrology is a bunch of bull.

 

[pelastration]

Brad,

have you ever seen a 'real' personal horoscope?

Dirk

 

[Brad_Ad23]

Yes, and they are very complicated. However, you are missing the point of what I am saying. The part about a newspaper horoscope is irrelevant, just an extra bit of pudding.

The meat and potatos of the experiment was taken out of the Astrologer's Handbook, and that was the general characteristics of each of the zodiac signs (as per the book). The corrolation was 70% right there, despite people receiving 11 times out of 12 the incorrect general traits paper.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Originally posted by hypnagogue
T Professional astrologers do not hold with theories of celestial influence. Instead, the modern astrologer conceives of the heavens and the Earth as united, interpenetrating, and sharing a common space and time. The great cosmic or celestial events happening around and beyond the Earth (eclipses, lineups, and so on) are not seen as CAUSING events to occur on Earth, but as great signatures of events ALSO happening here on Earth. In other words, there is no "cause" in the heavens followed by an "effect" here on Earth. Instead, both planetary and earthly events happen simultaneously and are mutually reflective. Neither is the other here on the Earth below. While astrologers don't feel that heavenly events are the cause of events here on Earth, they do feel that specific heavenly events are enacted here on the Earth-- at the same moment. In other words, there is only one grand "play." The great drama enacted in the sky is also acted out (in exact detail) here on Earth in the same instant. Another way to say this is that the Earth is part of the cosmos and shares in that cosmic moment.
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Now, what I find interesting about this is that this idea of acausal, meaningful relationships is very much in the spirit of Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity. Jung observed the existence of synchronistic events, which are acausally related and highly meaningful. Typically a synchronicity involves an individual's internal mental state being mirrored by an independent, acausally related external event, hence the synchronicity's meaningful nature. I am currently reading a book which postulates that such correspondances are indications of an underlying symmetry to existence. If nothing else, the fact that Jung came up with his theory based on real life observations (presumably) independently of any inspiration from astrology, and that his theory nontheless characterizes the conceptual framework behind astrology very well, is a provocative connection. Thoughts?

ok, let me see if I got this straight. A eclipse doesn't cause an event on Earth it's just a reflection of that event (and it must be an rare event since eclipses are rare). But we can predict eclipses (and a bunch of other astronomical events). So let's say we know an solar eclipse will happen on 19.04.2004. Doesn't that mean that an event on Earth will reflect that eclipse? So we can predict that an rare event will happen on that date true?
Another question. What event was reflected by the eclipse on 21.06.2001? Was it common for all the people on Earth, or was it personal for each?

 

[PsYcHo_FiSh]

One thing about astrology is its kind of metaphysic. I mean, there may be something to it but its kind of inconsistent. Personally, I believe in something a little more beyond what science accepts today. However, first thing we would have to do (IMO) is determine what affects does astrology have on people's before even if they aren't students of astrology. If we can successfully predict people's traits with astrology I think we are in bidness. But, that's not always the case and you guys know that. I'd like to believe astrology holds credence though.

There is a lot of stuff from ancient times that actually makes sense. Its just the modern scientific method has dwarfed and dismissed many things. Namely, Chinese medicine. Some of it is bull crap imo but if you put certain chemicals together from plants you have a pharmaceutical. The point being, the experience and wisdom of our ancestors needs to be respected and looked into logically.

Anyways, a science minded fellow might tell you that not even the outer planets have much of any affect on you. So, there is one thought. I don't know the truth.

Anyways, I think there is a degree of free will. If there isn't, the concept still has a use to us humans. But we do make decisions independant of everything we were raised around. Its not all stimulus input produces exactly what you want. That's a bunch of marxist bull.

I guess you could say, humans are the product of the random, fate and their own experiences. But name the force that is compelling me to write this. I bet you can't right off the top of your head. Takes time to think about thinking don't it? Meanwhile, aren't you choosing to go down this line of thought? :D

So let's say we know an solar eclipse will happen on 19.04.2004. Doesn't that mean that an event on Earth will reflect that eclipse? So we can predict that an rare event will happen on that date true?

Well, predictably when a rare event occurs humans act accordingly. Anyways, we see patterns, rather we look for patterns, all to well. That is why we developed the scientific method, to iron out patterns that are merely clutter. However, it is useless without imagination and an open mind. For, where would we find the inspiration to go on wihout the two?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

This thread seems to have died but I'll throw in my own two cents any way. It seems to me as though the info that cotterrel sites doesn't quite pan out as he explains it and is mainly just a hodge podge of research from unrelated groups and people. Most of it is even out of date as well the most recent bit I found in referance to the astrology subject being from 1984. One other thing that gives me pause concerning his theories is that I heard him in an interview claiming that the majority of the worlds billiard balls are made from the ivory tusks of frozen wolly mammoths since these frozen specimens are appearantly a dime a dozen.