-2.2.31 First order homogeneous ODE

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a first-order homogeneous ordinary differential equation (ODE) presented in a specific problem. Participants explore various methods of substitution and integration to approach the solution, while also clarifying the concept of homogeneity in differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest starting with the equation $$\frac{dy}{dx}=1+\frac{y}{x}+\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2$$ and propose using the substitution $$v=\frac{y}{x}$$ to simplify the problem.
  • One participant explains that a differential equation is considered homogeneous if replacing both variables with scaled versions yields the same equation, providing a detailed mathematical justification.
  • Another participant notes that after making the substitution, the equation can be transformed into a separable form, leading to the integration of both sides.
  • Several participants share their integration results, leading to expressions involving arctangent and logarithmic functions, specifically $$\arctan \frac{y}{x} - \ln x = c$$ and $$y = x \tan(\ln |c_1 x|)$$.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the graphical representation of the solution and the process for marking the thread as "solved".
  • A later reply highlights the equivalence of two derived forms of the solution, noting the importance of including absolute values in logarithmic expressions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the methods of substitution and integration used to approach the problem. However, there are variations in the expressions derived, and some participants express confusion regarding the graphical interpretation and the final form of the solution, indicating that the discussion remains somewhat unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings about the graphical representation of the solutions and the handling of absolute values in logarithmic terms. The discussion also reflects varying levels of clarity regarding the final expressions derived from the integration process.

karush
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I
OK going to do #31 if others new OPs
I went over the examples but?
well we can't 6seem to start by a simple separation
I think direction fields can be derived with desmos
 
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You want to begin by writing:

$$\frac{dy}{dx}=1+\frac{y}{x}+\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2$$

Next consider the substitution:

$$v=\frac{y}{x}\implies y=vx\implies \frac{dy}{dx}=x\frac{dv}{dx}+v$$

So, make the substitutions and simplify...what do you get?
 
Since the first part of the problem is to "show that the given equation is homogeneous" it helps to know what "homogeneous" means here! A differential equation is said to be "homogeneous" if and only if replacing both "x" and "y" by "tx" and "ty", where t is an arbitrary (but non-zero) number, gives exactly the same equation. Of course [math]\frac{d(ty)}{d(tx)}= \frac{dy}{dx}[/math] while replacing x and y in [math]\frac{x^2+ xy+ y^2}{x^2}[/math] by tx and ty gives [math]\frac{(tx)^2+ (tx)(ty)+ (ty)^2}{(tx)^2}= \frac{t^2x^2+ t^2xy+ t^2y^2}{t^2x^2}= \frac{t^2(x^2+ xy+ y^2)}{t^2x^2}= \frac{x^2+ xy+ y^2}{x^2}[/math].

(Notice that both numerator and denominator consist of terms that are quadratic in x and y. That's why we can cancel [math]t^2[/math].)

And the point of that is that we can replace y with y/x and get a simpler equation. Dividing, like MarkFL did, both numerator and denominator on the right by [math]x^2[/math] we get [math]\frac{dy}{dx}= \frac{1+ \frac{y}{x}+ \left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2}{1}= \left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2+ \frac{y}{x}+ 1[/math].
Letting [math]u= \frac{y}{x}[/math], [math]y= xu[/math] so [math]\frac{dy}{dx}= x\frac{du}{dx}+ u[/math].
The equation becomes [math]x\frac{du}{dx}+ u= u^2+ u+ 1[/math].
[math]x\frac{du}{dx}= u^2+ 1[/math], a "separable equation".
We can write that as [math]\frac{du}{u^2+ 1}= \frac{dx}{x}[/math] and integrate both sides.
 
MarkFL said:
You want to begin by writing:

$$\frac{dy}{dx}=1+\frac{y}{x}+\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2$$

Next consider the substitution:

$$v=\frac{y}{x}\implies y=vx\implies \frac{dy}{dx}=x\frac{dv}{dx}+v$$

So, make the substitutions and simplify...what do you get?
the LHS looks like a product... I think!
 
HallsofIvy said:
We can write that as [math]\frac{du}{u^2+ 1}= \frac{dx}{x}[/math] and integrate both sides.
$$\int \dfrac{1}{u^2 +1} du=\int \dfrac{1}{x}dx $$
$$\arctan u = \ln x +c $$
replace u
 
$$\int \dfrac{1}{u^2 +1} du=\int \dfrac{1}{x}dx $$
$$\arctan u = \ln x +c $$
replace $u= \frac{y}{x}$

$\arctan \dfrac{y}{x} - \ln x =c$
I think this it thanks everyone gteat help
 
Last edited:
$\arctan \dfrac{y}{x} - \ln x =c$.
I tried plotting this with different values of c but couldn't see any difference
also how do you get "solved" in the title when your done
 
MarkFL said:
You want to begin by writing:

$$\frac{dy}{dx}=1+\frac{y}{x}+\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2$$

Next consider the substitution:

$$v=\frac{y}{x}\implies y=vx\implies \frac{dy}{dx}=x\frac{dv}{dx}+v$$

So, make the substitutions and simplify...what do you get?

Next we have:

$$x\frac{dv}{dx}+v=1+v+v^2$$

$$x\frac{dv}{dx}=1+v^2$$

$$\int \frac{1}{v^2+1}\,\frac{dv}{dx}\,dx=\int\frac{1}{x}\,dx$$

$$\arctan(v)=\ln|c_1x|$$

$$v=\tan(\ln|c_1x|)$$

$$y(x)=x\tan(\ln|c_1x|)$$

[DESMOS]{"version":7,"graph":{"viewport":{"xmin":-10,"ymin":-12.5,"xmax":10,"ymax":12.5}},"randomSeed":"1941c0dc1cb008249dbf0302b22e1d8c","expressions":{"list":[{"type":"expression","id":"1","color":"#c74440","latex":"y=x\\ln\\left(\\left|cx\\right|\\right)"},{"type":"expression","id":"2","color":"#2d70b3","latex":"c=0.1","hidden":true,"slider":{"hardMin":true,"hardMax":true,"min":".01","max":"5","step":".001"}},{"type":"expression","id":"3","color":"#388c46"}]}}[/DESMOS]
 
Karush, do you see that your solution, $arctan(y/x)- ln(|x|)= c$, is the same as MarkFL's, $y= x tan(ln|c_1x|)$?
(Well, I added the absolute value that should have been in yours. $\int \frac{dx}{x}= ln(|x|)+ C$)

From $arctan(y/x)- ln(|x|)= c$ add ln(|x|) to both sides to get $arctan(y/x)= ln(|x|)+ c$. If we let $c_1= e^c$ (and, of course, $c_1$ is positve) the $c= ln(c_1)$ so $arctan(y/x)= ln(|x|)+ ln(c_1)= ln(|c_1x|)$.

Now, obviously, take the tangent of both sides to get $y/x= tan(ln(|c_1x|)$. Finally multiply both sides by x: $y= xtan(ln(|c_1x|)$.
 
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