A. P. French "Matter and Radiation: The Inertia of Energy"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around A. P. French's treatment of the inertia of energy in his book "Special Relativity," specifically focusing on the formulation of equation 1-7 as presented by Young. Participants are exploring the implications of this equation within the context of momentum and the center of mass in isolated systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter seeks clarification on how Young formulates equation 1-7, which relates to the inertia of energy and the movement of the center of mass.
  • Some participants suggest that understanding the momentum of light and the requirement for the center of mass to remain stationary simplifies the kinematics involved.
  • One participant notes that the argument presented is somewhat handwaving, as it neglects a term related to the movement of the light pulse, indicating that this aspect may require further consideration.
  • Peter acknowledges that Young presents equation 1-7 as a postulate, suggesting that it does not need to be proven, and that subsequent equations can follow from this assumption.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of clarity regarding the formulation of equation 1-7 and its implications. While some find the kinematics straightforward, others point out potential oversights in the reasoning, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple viewpoints on the matter.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing assumptions and potential oversights in the reasoning regarding the movement of the light pulse and its impact on the center of mass calculations.

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I am reading A. P. French's book: "Special Relativity". Currently I am focused on the section: "Matter and Radiation: The Inertia of Energy."

Under the heading: "Matter and Radiation: The Inertia of Energy", French writes the following:

French ...Matter & Radiation ... P16.png

French ...Matter & Radiation ... P17  ... png.png




In the above text by Young we read the following:

" ... ... But this being an isolated system, we are reluctant to believe that the center of mass in the box plus its contents have moved. We therefore postulate that the radiation has carried with it the equivalent of a mass m , such that

mL + M(delta)x = 0 ... ... ... 1-7

... ... "


Can someone please explain how Young formulates equation 1-7 ... how does he arrive at this equation?

Peter
 

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What specifically is not clear? Once you get the idea that light has momentum and that the centre of mass should not move, the kinematics are quite straightforward, are they not?
 
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1-7 is just requiring that the center of mass doesn't move. A mass ##m## has moved one distance and a mass ##M## has moved another, but ##\sum m_ix_i## has not changed.

Note that this argument is slightly handwaving because the light pulse moves ##L-\Delta x##, so he's quietly neglected a term like ##m\Delta x## as being very small.
 
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PeroK said:
What specifically is not clear? Once you get the idea that light has momentum and that the centre of mass should not move, the kinematics are quite straightforward, are they not?

Well, I was having some difficulty proving 1-7 ... BUT ... I note that Young writes that 1-7 is a postulate or assumption ... so we do not have to prove it ... and ... if you assume 1-7 to be true then 1-8 follows by simple algebra ...

Peter
 
Ibix said:
1-7 is just requiring that the center of mass doesn't move. A mass ##m## has moved one distance and a mass ##M## has moved another, but ##\sum m_ix_i## has not changed.

Note that this argument is slightly handwaving because the light pulse moves ##L-\Delta x##, so he's quietly neglected a term like ##m\Delta x## as being very small.

I note that Young writes that 1-7 is a postulate or assumption ... so we do not have to prove it ... and ... if you assume 1-7 to be true then 1-8 follows by simple algebra ...

Thanks again for your help ...

Peter
 

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