A problem related to divisibility

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem related to divisibility, specifically involving the relationship between a prime number \( p \) and an integer \( n \). The original poster attempts to explore the implications of \( n \) dividing \( p - 1 \) and the conditions under which \( p \) divides \( n^3 - 1 \).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of \( p \) dividing \( n^3 - 1 \) and the conditions that lead to \( p \) dividing \( n^2 + n + 1 \). There is a focus on finding \( p \) in terms of \( n \) and the values of \( k \). Questions arise regarding the nature of the remainder in polynomial division versus integer division.

Discussion Status

Some participants suggest reconsidering the approach to finding \( k \), particularly whether to focus on the quotient instead of the remainder. There is an exploration of the relationship between the terms in the quotient and the conditions for them to be integers. The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential for confusion between polynomial division and integer division, highlighting the need for clarity in the definitions and assumptions being used in the problem.

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Homework Statement
Let ##n, p > 1## be positive integers and ##p## be prime. Given that ##n | p − 1## and ## p | n^3 − 1##,
prove that ##4p − 3## is a perfect square
Relevant Equations
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So, ##n\, |\, (p − 1)## implies ##p = nk + 1## and ##p ≥ n + 1##.

Clearly, ## p \,|\, n^3 − 1## implies either :
##p \,|\, n − 1 ## (which is impossible, because p cannot be less than ##n-1##) or ##p \,|\,n^2 + n + 1##.

Now, our main focus is ##p\, |\,n^2 + n + 1##.
Since ##p = nk + 1##, this will become ##(nk+1) \,|\,n^2 + n + 1##

In order to solve the problem, I think I must find ##p## in terms of ##n##. For this reason, I need to find the possible values of ##k## first.
So:

Because the remainder of the division of ##(n^2 + n + 1)## by ##(nk+1)## is ##1-(\frac {k-1}{k^2})## and must be 0, It can be concluded that
$$1-(\frac {k-1}{k^2})=0$$
$$k^2-k+1 = 0$$
Strangely, after solving the above equation,the value of ##k## will be imaginary number.
What is wrong here?
 
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I think the problem is you found the remainder doing division in the ring of rational polynomials over n, but actually care about division in the integers. Those aren't going to be the same thing.

Edit to add: thinking about this a bit more, they are closer than I realized, but definitely not the same.

If you happen to factor ##p(n)=q(n)k(n)+r(n)## when dividing ##p(n)## by ##q(n)##, if ##k(n)## and ##r(n)## are guaranteed to be integers, and ##r(n)<q(n)##, then you do have a good integer factorization. This happens for lots of natural examples, for example ##p=n^2## and ##q=n+1## gives ##k=n-1##, ##r=1## and when you divide ##n^2## by ##n+1## in the integers you do in fact get a remainder of 1.

In your scale, ##k(n)## is almost certainly not an integer. It's closer to something like divide ##n^2## by ##5n##. Then you get ##k=\frac{1}{5}n##, ##r=0## but the remainder has nothing to do with integer division unless ##k## happens to be an integer.
Or another example, divide ##n^2## by ##n+100##. This gives ##k=n-100##, ##r=10000##. But when you pick ##n=30## and divide ##900## by ##103##, the remainder isn't ##10000##, because we failed the requirement that ##r<q##
 
Last edited:
So, to find ##k##, should I make use of the quotient instead of the remainder?

The quotient will be : ##\frac n k + \frac {k-1} {k²} ##Here is what I thought initially:
At first glance, the only possible value of ##k## is 1. Otherwise, the second term will become a fraction (consequently, the quotient will not be an integer)However, now that I think about it, isn't it possible for the quotient to be an integer even though if both term is a fraction?
 
I would have checked this out for the first few primes to see whether I could spot a pattern for ##p, n## and ##4p -3##.

It also helps to convince yourself that what you are trying to prove might actually be true!
 

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