Advice for a Chemistry-Based DND Concept

[Bracken]

Summary: If I could spontaneously shift an element's atomic number down by one, what kind of reactions could I cause? What would happen if a handful of O2 just transformed into N2?
<mentor: thread moved to SF & f forum >

Hello, I'm working on developing a chemistry-grounded Dungeons and Dragons campaign for a small group of friends. One of the features I'm trying to incorporate is a system in which players can harness nuclear transmutation to spontaneously turn one element into another at will, solving problems, attacking enemies, etc... by doing so. The catch is that once they pick a handful of an element, they can only reduce an element's atomic number by one. So, for instance, if a player a player selects oxygen gas from the atmosphere, they can only transform the oxygen atoms into nitrogen atoms. Right now I'm considering only the 2nd and 3rd period elements just to get a feel for what I'm getting into.

I'm hoping this kind of ability isn't too overpowered. Ignoring factors like gamma radiation from the nuclear transmutation and other yucky stuff like that, what kind of chemical havoc could my players cause?

Transforming the oxygen in the air into nitrogen sounds harmless, but would the spontaneous existence of a handful of N2 molecules held together by a preexisting double-bond cause any further reactions? Would they be exothermic or endothermic? The number of electrons within a molecule is unaffected by the transmutation. After the change, would there be any electrical discharge from the event?

 

[TeethWhitener]

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/how-to-avoid-breaking-physics-with-your-what-if-question/
Start here. Your questions as worded are too vague to answer in a meaningful way. There are a zillion different ways that they could be interpreted.

 

[BillTre]

You would be losing the positive charge on a lot of atomic nuclei, but would retain the negative charge and the original number of electrons.
The new nuclei would only want the number of electrons appropriate for their new elemental identity.
This sounds to me like there would be lots of sudden chemical changes as a result.

Biology as we know it would cease working.
I am guessing there would at least be a discharge to something grounded, maybe similar to lightening. There's a lot of charge to get rid of.

This is assuming that only an object separate from its environment would be changed.
If a whole planet had this done to it, its not clear to me where it would discharge to.

If the atomic transformation also changed their electron number than the charge problem would go away, but the chemistry would also be transformed to that of the new atoms. This would also cause extensive chemical changes to occur.
Again, biology would not work right.

 

[jbriggs444]

You would be losing the positive charge on a lot of atomic nuclei, but would retain the negative charge and the original number of electrons.

Why not treat it as a reverse beta decay -- positron emission? A proton turns into a neutron, an extra electron is annihilated with the positron and both charge and baryon number are conserved.

Of course, your ¹⁶O is now ¹⁶N and is unstable. One dramatic chemical consequence has been traded away, but a dramatic nuclear consequence remains.

Edit: Looked it up. ¹⁶N decays with a 7 second half-life back to ¹⁶O with beta emission.

 

[stefan r]

Summary: If I could spontaneously shift an element's atomic number down by one, what kind of reactions could I cause? What would happen if a handful of O2 just transformed into N2?
<mentor: thread moved to SF & f forum >

Hello, I'm working on developing a chemistry-grounded Dungeons and Dragons campaign for a small group of friends. One of the features I'm trying to incorporate is a system in which players can harness nuclear transmutation to spontaneously turn one element into another at will, solving problems, attacking enemies, etc... by doing so. The catch is that once they pick a handful of an element, they can only reduce an element's atomic number by one. So, for instance, if a player a player selects oxygen gas from the atmosphere, they can only transform the oxygen atoms into nitrogen atoms. Right now I'm considering only the 2nd and 3rd period elements just to get a feel for what I'm getting into.

I'm hoping this kind of ability isn't too overpowered. Ignoring factors like gamma radiation from the nuclear transmutation and other yucky stuff like that, what kind of chemical havoc could my players cause?

Transforming the oxygen in the air into nitrogen sounds harmless, but would the spontaneous existence of a handful of N2 molecules held together by a preexisting double-bond cause any further reactions? Would they be exothermic or endothermic? The number of electrons within a molecule is unaffected by the transmutation. After the change, would there be any electrical discharge from the event?

Elements in DnD are air, fire, earth, and water.

If I ever get back into dungeon mastering DnD I would start by gauging the response of the players. They would need to be somewhat into pseudo-chemistry in order for it to be interesting.

I would try to repeal the gas law. This has implications for firearms and power plants both of which we want to get rid of so that technology stays similar to medieval sometimes. Repealing the gas law does not prevent gnomes from developing and using hydraulic field catapults.

As for your element switching you consider sodium in rock salt. A 50/50 mix of neon and chlorine would be under extreme pressure and explode [assuming, of course, that the gas law is still in effect]. After the explosion there would still be a cloud of chlorine. Most players would probably come up with something lame like using the spell to convert their gold pieces into platinum pieces. If you were doing oxygen to nitrogen it would be much more useful to convert water to hydrazine. Hydrazine can be used as a rocket propellant by itself but releasing hydrogen gas into the air would add a nice fireball.

 

[chemisttree]

Best if you try to shift hydrogen down by one. Photon torpedo?

 

[member 656954]

Would it be easier to establish a set of allowed transmutations that players can use?

I'm not sure what magic is in play with your game, but as an example of the 'why this happens', perhaps an ancient wizard carved a series of runes into the fundamental fabric of this universe and those support elemental transformations of a limited fashion. Whatever the reason, establishing rules for a limited set seems more straightforward for you and the players. It can also allow for more dramatic effects because as you've noted, it's not 'real' chemistry or physics in any event.

More prosaically, how do you constrain the effect? Does it transmute a certain number of elements per go? Or only within a given volume? Where does the transmutation energy come from - do higher number elements sap more player strength than lower number elements? (Or vice versa) How do you account for transmuting a lump of high purity vs. a lump that's a compound? And can players protect against their own bodies being transmuted? That's an effective weapon, turning my carbon-based body into a boron-based body! Which also opens up the question, what is the range of this transmutation magic? Finally, why only down? Why not up as well?

Good luck with the game!

 

[Vanadium 50]

Sadly, this is another drive-by posting. The OP posted and hasn't come back.

You're right - as are the others - this needs to be better defined to be answered. One critical question: is charge conserved, and if so how? The side effect of super-lightning probably swamps any other effect under consideration.

 

[member 656954]

Sadly, this is another drive-by posting.

That's a shame, the OP obviously had put some thought into their question, so refining the concept with interaction seemed likely.

 

[Nik_2213]

IIRC, Stross ('Concrete Jungle' etc in 'Laundry' series) explored this with a 'medusa gun,' whose Gorgonian effect converted a small proportion of target's carbon atoms to silicon with dramatically dire consequences...

 

[BWV]

Sure, so changing the carbon in any living creature to boron would do $$ 2\uparrow \uparrow \uparrow 4 $$D12 damage

Maybe have the power work only on raw elements, not part of a compound - then have a spell with a cost in line with the energy required to break apart a compound like water before you can transmute the element?

 

[chemisttree]

One critical question: is charge conserved, and if so how? The side effect of super-lightning probably swamps any other effect under consideration.

Probably best that charge isn’t conserved. Electrical effects could be stunning! Two simultaneous blasts to different parts of the body, one transmutation up and one down, could produce a “battery” of difficulties.

 

[stefan r]

Probably best that charge isn’t conserved. Electrical effects could be stunning! Two simultaneous blasts to different parts of the body, one transmutation up and one down, could produce a “battery” of difficulties.

I lost my ADnD 2nd edition books a few decades ago and have not kept up. :(

I believe shocking grasp was a level 1 spell. Lightning bolt was level 3. This proposed transmutation spell would have 0 range and could discharge in random directions.

The only reason players will write this into their spell books is so that they can convert their gold pieces into platinum pieces. At higher levels they will use 3 spell slots while the rest of the party heals and use that to convert lead to gold. Obviously the party will wait for a fourth slot so that they can take platinum into town to load up on gear.

Explosive runes would be especially devastating on a physics forum.