Amplitude to go from a location to another

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation for the amplitude of a free particle transitioning from one location to another, specifically examining the role of the distance in the denominator of the amplitude expression. Participants explore the derivation of this equation, its implications for probability, and the nature of the wave function involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Feynman's lectures, noting that the amplitude is proportional to \dfrac{e^{ip\cdot r_{12}/\hbar}}{r_{12}} and questions the origin of the r_{12} in the denominator.
  • Another participant explains that the r_{12} in the denominator indicates that the probability, being the square of the amplitude, falls off like 1/r_{12}^2 due to the uniform probability distribution over a spherical surface.
  • A different participant discusses the conservation of probability on an expanding spherical wavefront and introduces the Green's function formalism, providing a detailed mathematical expression for the amplitude.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the phrase "the amplitude to go from \vec{r_1} to \vec{r_2}" and introduces the time-dependent Green's function, suggesting a relationship to the previously discussed amplitude but acknowledging uncertainty in proving it mathematically.
  • Several participants propose that the presence of r in the denominator relates to the spherical nature of the wave, with one participant asserting that the amplitude's spherical wave nature requires the phase to be independent of angles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the amplitude's dependence on distance, with some agreeing on the probabilistic implications while others challenge the characterization of the wave's nature. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise relationship between the amplitude and its spherical wave properties.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions underlying the derivations and interpretations remain unclear or unresolved, particularly in relating the time-dependent and time-independent forms of the Green's function.

damosuz
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In the Feynman lectures on physics Vol.III (P.3-4), Feynman gives an equation for the amplitude for a free particle of definite energy to go from r1 to r2 to be proportional to

[itex]\dfrac{e^{ip\cdot r_{12}/\hbar}}{r_{12}}.[/itex]

Where does this equation come from, especially the r12 in the denominator?
 
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This amplitude comes from solving the Schrödinger equation, which I think Feynman introduces some time well after stating this formula.

The ##r_{12}## in the denominator indicates that the probability (which is the square of the amplitude) falls off like ##1/r_{12}^2##. This is because the particle has an amplitude to go in any direction. So the probability of ending up at any point on a sphere of radius ##r_{12}## is the same. So the probability of ending up at a specific point has to fall like the surface area of that sphere, which goes like ##r_{12}^2##.
 
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The [itex]\vec{r}_{12}^2[/itex] dependence in the denominator comes due to the conservation of probability on an expanding spherical wavefront.

Mathematically, the amplitude to go from [itex]|\vec{r}_1\rangle[/itex] to [itex]|\vec{r}_2\rangle[/itex] is given by the Green's function
[tex] \langle\vec{r}_2|\hat{G}|\vec{r}_1\rangle,[/tex]
where, for a free particle, the Green's operator [itex]\hat{G}[/itex] is given by
[tex] \hat{G} = \lim_{\epsilon \to 0^+}\left(\int_0^\infty dE'\frac{|E'\rangle\langle E'|}{E-E'+i\epsilon}\right).[/tex]
The term [itex]+i\epsilon[/itex] is added to enforce outward going waves.

Now the explicit form of Green's function becomes
[tex] G(\vec{r}_1,\vec{r}_2) = \lim_{\epsilon \to 0^+}\left(\left\langle\vec{r}_1\left|\int_0^\infty dE'\frac{|E'\rangle\langle E'|}{E-E'+i\epsilon}\right|\vec{r}_2\right\rangle\right).[/tex]

Using calculus of residues, one can evaluate the total amplitude to be
[tex] -\frac{m}{2\pi\hbar^2}\frac{e^{i k|\vec{r}_1-\vec{r}_2|}}{|\vec{r}_1-\vec{r}_2|}.[/tex]

As a test, when you insert this amplitude (wavefunction) in the time-independent Schrödinger equation, you will see that it is the eigen-function with energy [itex]\frac{\hbar^2k^2}{2m}[/itex].

You can also evaluate the probability current density vector and show a positive divergence from [itex]\vec{r}_1[/itex].
 
Last edited:
Ravi Mohan said:
Using calculus of residues, one can evaluate the total amplitude to be
[tex] -\frac{m}{2\pi\hbar^2}\frac{e^{i k|\vec{r}_1-\vec{r}_2|}}{|\vec{r}_1-\vec{r}_2|}.[/tex]

As a test, when you insert this amplitude (wavefunction) in the time-independent Schrödinger equation, you will see that it is the eigen-function with energy [itex]\frac{\hbar^2k^2}{2m}[/itex].

You can also evaluate the probability current density vector and show a positive divergence from [itex]\vec{r}_1[/itex].

I'm a little confused by the phrase "the amplitude to go from [itex]\vec{r_1}[/itex] to [itex]\vec{r_2}[/itex]" in the original post.

The time-dependent green's function

[itex]G(\vec{r}, t, \vec{r_1}, t_1)[/itex]

is the amplitude for going from [itex]\vec{r_1}[/itex] at time [itex]t_1[/itex] to [itex]\vec{r}[/itex] at time [itex]t[/itex]. That function is of course time-dependent. For a free particle, it is given by:

[itex]G(R,T) = \sqrt{\dfrac{m}{2\pi i \hbar T}} e^{i m R^2/(2 \hbar T)}[/itex]

where [itex]T = t - t_1[/itex] and [itex]R = |\vec{r} - \vec{r_1}|[/itex]

That formula looks very different from the one people have been talking about. I think that they are related as follows (but I don't actually know how to do the math to prove it):

Do a Fourier transform to write [itex]G(R,T)[/itex] as a superposition of states with definite energy:

[itex]G(R,T) = \frac{1}{2 \pi} \int d\omega\ G(R,\omega)\ e^{-i \omega t}[/itex]

Then if we substitute [itex]\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}[/itex] for [itex]\omega[/itex] in [itex]G(R,\omega)[/itex] to get [itex]G_k(R)[/itex], we have (I conjecture):

[itex]G_k(R) = -\dfrac{m}{2 \pi \hbar^2} \dfrac{e^{i k R}}{R}[/itex]
 
Could we say that the r in the denominator is due to the fact that the amplitude is a spherical wave?
 
damosuz said:
Could we say that the r in the denominator is due to the fact that the amplitude is a spherical wave?

The presence of [itex]r[/itex] in the denominator doesn't make the wave spherical. For a spherical wave, the phase must be independent of the polar and azimuthal angles ([itex]\theta[/itex] and [itex]\phi[/itex]).
 

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