Are black holes infinitely dense?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of black holes and their density, specifically addressing whether black holes are infinitely dense and the implications of such a property on gravity and the universe. Participants explore theoretical aspects, definitions, and implications related to black hole density and gravitational effects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the notion that black holes are infinitely dense, suggesting that this leads to contradictions regarding gravity and the universe's structure.
  • It is proposed that while the singularity at the center of a black hole might be infinitely dense due to zero volume, the black hole itself can have a low density, especially in the case of large black holes.
  • Participants discuss the gravitational effects of black holes, noting that at a sufficient distance, their gravitational attraction resembles that of a star with the same mass.
  • One participant emphasizes that infinite gravity cannot be achieved with a star due to physical constraints, while infinite gravity can be approached near a point mass.
  • There is a suggestion that defining the density of a black hole is complex, and one intuitive definition indicates that larger black holes have lower density.
  • Concerns are raised about the source of the claim regarding infinite density, highlighting the need for references to clarify misunderstandings.
  • Another participant connects the discussion to the expanding universe, suggesting that this phenomenon indicates gravity is not infinite.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether black holes are infinitely dense. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the implications of density on gravity and the nature of black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity in defining black hole density and the implications of singularities, indicating that assumptions about volume and mass are critical to the discussion.

Aliam1
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If they are infinitely dense than, they would have infinite gravity, so if they have infinite gravity then the universe would have been sucked into a black hole. I was told that black hole has Infinite density so I want to clarify with you guys because it's logically didn't make sense to me.
 
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You are correct; black holes are not infinitely dense. In fact, very large black holes have very low density; like below 1 s.g.

What *might* be infinitely dense is the "singularity" at the center of the black hole, if it exists. What would make it infinitely dense isn't infinite mass, but zero volume, which resolves the contradiction you noted.
 
Aliam1 said:
If they are infinitely dense than, they would have infinite gravity, so if they have infinite gravity then the universe would have been sucked into a black hole. I was told that black hole has Infinite density so I want to clarify with you guys because it's logically didn't make sense to me.

At a sufficient distance from a black hole, its gravitational attraction is no different from a star of the same mass.

The reason you cannot get "infinite" gravity with a star is that you cannot get close enough without reaching the surface of the star.

Even in good old Newton's gravity:

##g = \frac{GM}{r^2}##

You have "infinite" gravity close to a point mass.
 
PeroK said:
At a sufficient distance from a black hole, its gravitational attraction is no different from a star of the same mass.

The reason you cannot get "infinite" gravity with a star is that you cannot get close enough without reaching the surface of the star.

Even in good old Newton's gravity:

##g = \frac{GM}{r^2}##

You have "infinite" gravity close to a point mass.
The way I read the OP, though he didn't come out and say it, was that a "black hole" has finite volume, so infinite density would indeed result in infinite mass and therefore infinite "gravity" everywhere in the universe
 
Aliam1 said:
I was told that black hole has Infinite density
Told by whom? If you don't provide a reference there's no way for us to know whether the source is wrong or you misunderstood it.

But with that said...
- It's somewhat tricky defining the "density" of a black hole, but one intuitive definition would be the volume of a hypothetical sphere with area equal to ##4\pi{r_S}^2## where ##r_S## is the Schwarzschild radius divided by the mass. By this definition, not only the is the density not infinite but the larger the black hole the less dense it is.
- Although the density as defined above is not infinite, even an infinitely powerful outwards force will not stop something from falling through the horizon. Thus, we could reasonably say that the gravitational force is infinite there.
 
russ_watters said:
The way I read the OP, though he didn't come out and say it, was that a "black hole" has finite volume, so infinite density would indeed result in infinite mass and therefore infinite "gravity" everywhere in the universe

Another evidence to what you said russ is the expanding universe which says that gravity is not infinite. What do you think russ
 

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