Are two models with the same S matrix directly related by their parameters?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between two models that exhibit the same S matrix and whether this implies exact equivalence between the models. It explores theoretical implications, particularly in the context of integrable systems and the inverse scattering problem.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant posits that if two models show the same S matrix through a direct relation between their parameters, they should be considered exactly equivalent.
  • Another participant counters that finding a Hamiltonian from a given S matrix, known as the inverse scattering problem, does not guarantee a unique solution without additional constraints, suggesting multiple models can yield the same S matrix.
  • A participant provides an example involving the sine-Gordon and Thirring models, arguing that a relation between coupling constants and identical rapidities distribution under the Bethe ansatz could indicate an equivalence class between the models.
  • In response, it is noted that while some cases, like the sine-Gordon and Thirring models, may reflect equivalence, a general proof is challenging, and physicists often assume equivalence based on identical S-matrices without a universal theorem to support this assumption.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the same S matrix implies model equivalence. Some suggest that specific cases may demonstrate equivalence, while others maintain that a general proof is lacking, indicating unresolved disagreement on the topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of establishing equivalence between models based on S matrices, emphasizing the need for additional arguments or proofs in specific cases. The limitations of the inverse scattering problem and the absence of a general theorem are noted as significant factors in this discourse.

gonadas91
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Hello, I was wondering if two models show the same S matrix by a direct relation between their parameters, does that necessarily mean that both models are exactly equivalent? My idea is that this is true, but would like to know about a solid argument about it if possible, thank you!
 
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gonadas91 said:
Hello, I was wondering if two models show the same S matrix by a direct relation between their parameters, does that necessarily mean that both models are exactly equivalent? My idea is that this is true, but would like to know about a solid argument about it if possible, thank you!
No. Given an S-matrix to find a corresponding Hamiltonian is called the inverse scattering problem. It leads to a unique solution only under appropriate additional constraints - otherwise there are infinitely many solutions.
 
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Thank you for the reply. But imagine I have two S matrices, one for one model and another one for a different one. Say that the parameter "a" for the first model has a relation with "b" in the second one, this is a relation between their coupling constants just like the sine-Gordon and Thirring models. Then, when finding the rapidities distribution under Bethe ansatz, the kernel of the integral equation is the same, the rapidities distribution is the same for both models, and then the eigenvalues are the same. Doesn't this reflect an equivalence class between the two models then?
 
gonadas91 said:
Say that the parameter "a" for the first model has a relation with "b" in the second one, this is a relation between their coupling constants just like the sine-Gordon and Thirring models. Then, when finding the rapidities distribution under Bethe ansatz, the kernel of the integral equation is the same, the rapidities distribution is the same for both models, and then the eigenvalues are the same. Doesn't this reflect an equivalence class between the two models then?
Sometimes, as in the case of sine-Gordon and Thirring, this is the case. But one needs to find a separate argument to give a conclusive proof, as the general answer is negative. Physicists generally assume equivalence if integrable systems have identical S-matrices, but a proof of that in any particular case may be quite difficult as there is no general theorem.
 
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