Black holes and theories of gravity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of black holes and their implications for theories of gravity, particularly in the context of General Relativity. Participants explore the paradox of gravitational influence outside the event horizon and the theoretical implications of gravity's behavior in relation to black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that while black holes trap everything inside their event horizon, the gravitational field outside remains, which raises questions about the nature of gravity in General Relativity.
  • Another participant argues that the existence of the gravitational field outside the horizon contradicts the idea that gravity could be caused by waves, proposing instead that gravity is a result of the influence of matter's surroundings.
  • There is a reference to the concept of 'gravitons' in particle physics, with a participant noting that these particles would not be able to 'sense' gravity, despite not exceeding light speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of gravity and its relationship with black holes, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully resolve the implications of gravity's behavior in relation to black holes, leaving open questions about the assumptions underlying their arguments.

robheus
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In the perception of General Relativity a Black hole can form in which anything (including light) is trapped inside the horizon of the Black hole and can never escape, because nothing can exceed light speed.

However, still something escapes the Black hole, which is the presence of the gravitational field outside of the horizon of the Black hole. Since in General Relativity also gravity itself can not be faster then light speed, this is - in a sense - some kind of peculiarity.
One could (in theory) propose that a Black hole, after it has formed, would withdraw it's presence of the gravitational field outside the horizon altogether under the assumption that also the gravity field itself can not escape from the Black hole, and with which the Black hole would effectively disappear for outside observers, and only objects that cross the horizon (without being drawn in by the Black hole as there would be no extreme force of gravity outside the horizon), would experience the presence of the Black hole and disappear inside the horizon. A black hole would then just be a 'gap in space' without making it's presence observable for outside observers.

Appearently, however, this is not the case, since Black holes manifest themselves by the strong gravity fields that exists outside the horizon of the Black hole, which makes a Black hole observable for observers outside the horizon. Else, we would probably not know that a Black hole exists.

What does this mean in terms of the theory of Gravity? In so far particle physics for example predicts the existence of 'gravitons' (particles that exert the force of gravity, similar to how photons exert the electro-magnetic force), those particles can't themselves 'sense' the force of gravity, although a 'graviton' would not exceed light speed.
 
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robheus said:
However, still something escapes the Black hole, which is the presence of the gravitational field outside of the horizon of the Black hole. Since in General Relativity also gravity itself can not be faster then light speed, this is - in a sense - some kind of peculiarity.

A very good observation and I think this is a very strong argument against the idea of gravity being caused by any kind of wave.

In my opinion, it reinforces the concept of gravity being caused by matter's surroundings rather than matter somehow reaching out and pulling you down, more like a pushing down by space itself.
 
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/BlackHoles/black_gravity.html"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thx.
 

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