Bra State Meaning: Negative Energy Possibility?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of bra states in quantum mechanics, specifically exploring whether a bra state can be interpreted as a state with negative energy. The scope includes theoretical aspects of quantum mechanics and the mathematical framework of vector spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a bra state can be interpreted as a state with negative energy, noting that it is the dual state of a ket state.
  • Another participant argues against the idea of bra states representing negative energy, explaining that bras are linear complex-valued functions defined on vector spaces, forming a dual vector space.
  • This participant elaborates on the relationship between kets and bras, mentioning that kets are denoted by |u> and bras by
  • A later reply emphasizes that each ket |u> and its corresponding bra

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of bra states, particularly regarding the concept of negative energy. The discussion includes both supportive and opposing arguments, indicating that no consensus has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the Riesz Representation Theorem and Gleason's Theorem as relevant to the discussion, but the implications of these theorems remain unresolved within the context of the conversation.

intervoxel
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What exactly is a bra state. I know that it is the dual state of some ket state. Can it be interpreted as a state with negative energy?
 
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intervoxel said:
What exactly is a bra state. I know that it is the dual state of some ket state. Can it be interpreted as a state with negative energy?

No its not that ie negative energy. Given any vector space you can define linear complex valued functions on that space and they form a vector space called its dual. For the spaces used in QM it is assumed they can be put in one to one correspondence with the original vectors. When that can be done its called a Hilbert Space. In the Dirac notation the original vectors are called Kets and are denoted by |u>. The linear functions are denoted by <u| and are called Bras. Since the Bras are really linear functions defined on the Kets you can operate on a Ket with a Bra to give a complex number and that is written as <u1|u2>. It is also assumed (I am not sure if its an assumption or can be derived - I would need to look it up - its associated with something called the Rietz Representation Theorem and something in the back of my mind says the following properties pop out of it) that when written this way it has the properties of an inner product:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_product_space

For the Rietz Representation Theroem check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesz_representation_theorem

Yea it looks like you can prove the inner product properties rather than assume it.

The deep reason why its introduced is because of a Theorem known as Gleasons Theorem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleason's_theorem

The above is a bit technical but roughly it says the only way to define a probability on complex vector spaces is by |<U1|U2>|^2 (called the Born Rule) where it gives the probability of observing a system in state |U1> and the outcome is |U2> - |U1> and |U2> normalised.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the answer.
 
One thing that should also be mentioned is for each ket |u> that represents some state (in the sense "equivalence class of preparation procedures"), the "corresponding" bra <u| represents the same state, i.e. the same physical situation. However, as bhobba said, they're members of different vector spaces. A bra is a continuous linear function that that takes kets to complex numbers.
 

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