Breaking Points: The Human Threshold for Endurance and Resilience

[superweirdo]

What I mean to say is that I have met people who say they arent afraid of ghosts. I have heard of soldiers who don't give away secrets by no matter how much torture is put on them. What I was wondering isn't there a point when a man gives up. Some men may have a higher point but doesn't everyone finally gives up?

 

[Outlandish_Existence]

How would one ever know? If a man goes to his grave with a secret, then it's just that... unknown. Many have been known to die for what they believe to be top-secret knowledge. You cannot classify the question in the context of everyone, because not everyone is the same.

 

[superweirdo]

Well yeah, that is what I am looking for, read my question again,"does EVERYONE have a limit" Meaning is there anybody who doesn't? Is there anybody who could go through infinite pain, infinite misery and hold what stands as the truth? Is there a man who can never be scared, terrified?

 

[Chi Meson]

I can be terrified, but I will never believe in ghosts. The two things are not connected; one is an emotion the other a superstition. I'd think that anyone who can not be terrified about anything would be an oddity, an emotional cripple.

 

[superweirdo]

I am talking about walking in a place that is filled of ghost and not get a heart attack. All cases I have seen, heard of where a person has seen ghost either gets a heart attack or faints and can't get out of his bed for days sweating all the time.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Every torturer worth his salt knows that you can break any man/woman, it's simply a matter of pushing the right physical and psychological buttons, by beatings, carefull manipualtion of a subject and by denying someone sleep/food water and playing Bill Ray cyrus's Achy Breaky Heart repeatedly into someones cell, I guarantee even the toughest of individuals will be a drooling wreck in no time. Another good way of making people talk is drugs (such as truth serum) Another is sensory deprivation, which sends most people nuts after a while.

The problem with torture on the whole though is most of the time people tell you anything you may want to hear, regardless of whether it's true or not simply to stop the punishment, so many times you end up with useless information. At least that's what they told us in evil medical college.

EDIT: Should you be placed in a situation where you are likely to be tortured prescribed advice is to play it grey, don't impart anything at all for as long as you possibly can. Do not personalise questions or give any informaiton away that will give your torturer a psychological edge, answer questions in monosylabic fashion and don't be drawn on anything. Again courtesy of evil medical college. Try and stick to the basics, name, rank serial number stylee.

 

[superweirdo]

Lets not talk about truth serum b/c that skips the torture but how about this, you can tell weather he is telling hte truth or not so you keep torturing them and they keep lyieng.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

That's the problem with torture, there is no way to accurately determine the truth and torture simply makes people invent whatever they think you want to hear, descerning truth from fiction could be too difficult, as a good juicy lie may well be precisely what the torturer was hoping to hear, where as in fact it's a self fulfulling prophecy.

Where is General Zogs home base, is it on Mars?

Yes it's on Mars!

Where on Mars!

Ah Marsbase..alpha?

Good we've heard reports he was operating under the guise of Zeprhon C. Mandrakes auspices, not so neutral now eh commander?

 

[superweirdo]

I am takling theoretically, is there anyone on this Earth who can take infinite pain?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Jesus perhaps, he was brutally tortured and killed? Because he refused to tell people what they wanted to hear just kidding. But basically no,I think everyone has their limits. Theoretically I'm sure you could find someone mad or deranged enough to put up with any amount of pain, but I'd like to meet that person, he'd have to be incredible.

A friend of mine who we often labled as being incredibally resistent to pain, and having extroadinary stamina was once made to run on a badly sprained ankle by his sergeant(who didn't believe he'd injured himself) shortly afterwards he went crazy and opened up a an entire blank clip into the sargeants body, the pain had triggered off a mental illness. There is another limiting factor as well, at a certain level of pain the body simply shuts down and you die, that is as far as I'm aware the same for everyone. For example, fortunately people who burn to death die long before they have received enough damage to kill them. I'm no expert though, perhaps you'd get more joy in the Brain science section?

 

[superweirdo]

wait, are you saying that if a guy's body is not being damaged at all, the pain is keep increasing, his mind wouldn't be able to handle it anymore and he would die? I am sorry but that doesn't make sense.

Another thing, there are two ways to control pain, one, to triggger anger, second, to be calm. Anger works for short range and for an unexperienced person but being calm is something by which you can take just about any amount of pain in theory. It was believed that when jesus was being crucified, he was in samadhi-try searching for it online, that is what I am talking about, being totally calm. A state in which you control every single aspect of your body. You can control your blood pressure, heart beat rate, can even shut down pain if you want. It is like you can cut your arm and not feel the pain. Amazing isn't it? I am a true believer of it b/c I have witnessed a lot of things that has convinced me that it exists.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Oh you mean, like the Budhist monk who set fire to himself as a war protest, this only works if people are not working you over, deep meditative trances, and other pain easing techniques require concentration, a torturer could easily snap you out of any trance like state or ruin your concentration.

And yes after a certain amount of pain the brain simply shuts down, that's precisely what I mean. It has to be overwhelming and chronic rather than sporadic though. You give a person enough pain they will die.

Another factette from evil medical college, the Japanese said that the art of torture was being able to keep a man alive,in some cases whilst slowly boiling him, removing him when the pain got too intense and then judging it just right before you put him back again. Many "amateurs" would kill the victim in a short time, merit came from inducing pain for the longest possible time without the body shutting down.

 

[superweirdo]

oh but that counters a belief I read this guy who said that reason when people return from near death experience and say that they saw heaven is b/ c when they are in too much pain, their body can't take it anymore so instead, mind gives them a place to relax, and that place is dependent on what he has experienced throughout his life. Since he is a christian and believes in hell and heaven and wants to go to heaven, he thinks he is going to heaven.

 

[Andre]

If this is about enduring physical hardness or reveal information, the latest techniques do not depend on torture.

There are basically three stages to prepare the interrogation, first, make a psychological profile of the victim. Second, determine the most successful approach to break the victim, third, a conditioning period (no sleep, no food, constant disturbance, loud noises, demonstration of power) to weaken the defence.

The actual interrogation game is mostly in a most friendly setting, prompting the victim to stay in there and concede things to remain in that friendly environment, while the interrogator is attempting to appeal to the psychological profile (fear, pride, fairness, justice, etc) to induce emotions that may let the guard go down. In the end most victims did not even realize that they have revealed information.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Yes the SAS for example counter this by using the grey man technique as I described above. If you don't let them get a foothold they can't induce you to talk consciouslly or otherwise. Many countries still use physical torture as a punishment rather than to extract information though. And still more use both psychological techniques and pain in conjunction, pain is a means to an end, to weaken resolve, later they move onto purely psychology, this would engender I suspect a sort of grateful feeling in the victim who might be more willing to respond when his suffering is stopped. Even psychological torture such as sleep deprivation and noise abuse has physical side effects.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr511242006

Not that I want to single the US out, but a suposedly democratic country using these methods is indicative of the fact that both physical and mental torture are used in conjunction in many places around the world.

This was part of the structure of the camp to try to break you physically, mentally and spiritually so keeping you in isolation was one of their main ploys.
Martin Mubanga, was held, without charge, in Guantánamo Bay for 33 months

The US recently faced a tribuneral about the actions of in it's detention centres for only the second time in its history.

 

[JasonRox]

I walk around in the dark all the time.

I hurt my toes a lot that way though.

 

[Moonbear]

There are basically three stages to prepare the interrogation, first, make a psychological profile of the victim. Second, determine the most successful approach to break the victim, third, a conditioning period (no sleep, no food, constant disturbance, loud noises, demonstration of power) to weaken the defence.

Sounds like trying to get through grad school while working/living in dorms. After 3 years of that, I decided it was time to get an apartment, which wasn't much better considering it was over a bar and across the street from a rescue squad, and after you'd been woken up by the drunks at 2 AM and the sirens heading to the accident scene at 3 AM after those drunks got on the road, the church bells would start ringing at 6 #&*^%ing AM on Sunday! "Home on the Range" (no, I don't know why they picked that tune) played in church bells three times a day is really effective for breaking down one's sanity...you'd do anything to get it to stop, believe me!