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Bush: we need some way to make this war ?

  1. May 5, 2006 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    Bush: "we need some way to make this war"?

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/04/acd.02.html
    -RAY MCGOVERN, FORMER CIA ANALYST

    This is the guy who attacked Rummy yesterday. He was on Anderson Cooper last night and his quote above is from that discussion. Note that the page credits this comment to Cooper, but it was McGovern who said this. He claims that we have "proof" that Bush knew there were no WMDs before we went into Iraq.

    It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

    As for the exchange yersterday between McGovern and Rummy, I find it interesting that Rummy "knew" where the weapons were when Saddam occupied the country, but now that we have been there in full force for three years, according to Rummy, it "appears" that there were no WMDs after all.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2006
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  3. May 5, 2006 #2

    Gokul43201

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    I've never seen Rumsfeld look this disconcerted before.
     
  4. May 5, 2006 #3

    Pengwuino

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    Wow opinion from random people seems to carry a lot of weight around here :rolleyes:
     
  5. May 5, 2006 #4

    Ivan Seeking

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  6. May 5, 2006 #5

    Pengwuino

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    Didn't think i'd ever see you promoting such a religious persons point of view on things ivan!

    And considering he lectures on things using Michael Moore as a source, i wouldn't call him very legitimate
     
  7. May 5, 2006 #6

    Ivan Seeking

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    His allegations at the conference yesterday have been confirmed. He also claims that Bush's statements are on the record.

    Your objections are silly.
     
  8. May 5, 2006 #7

    Pengwuino

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    I'd like to see those records....

    If you considered this is the first time such statements that are so dramatic have been brought up, you'd appreciate my doubts
     
  9. May 5, 2006 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    From the link above.
     
  10. May 5, 2006 #9

    Ivan Seeking

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    So would I and a lot of other people. If true, I think this constitutes grounds for war crimes charges; or at the least, grounds for immediate impeachment.
     
  11. May 5, 2006 #10

    Pengwuino

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    Well im sure if they were true, the democrats would have brought it up by now. I have a feeling this will just be another one of those allegations that were never backed up by fact.
     
  12. May 5, 2006 #11

    George Jones

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    Like the ones made by the Bush administration?

    Regards,
    George
     
  13. May 5, 2006 #12

    Pengwuino

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    nice comeback :rolleyes: What is this, comedy hour?
     
  14. May 5, 2006 #13

    BobG

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    If you're writing that paragraph, I think it's a 'slam dunk' that the 'they' of "We know where they are" means "weapons of mass destruction". If you're speaking those words in response to a question, I don't think it's quite as certain, which is why reporters ask questions to clarify an answer.

    It doesn't necessarily mean Rumsfeld had evidence that these sites had weapons of mass destruction. It could mean that Rumsfeld was certain they would find evidence at those sites. The former would be a lie, while the latter would be wrong. Of course, the latter could have been a lie as well, with Rumsfeld stalling for time for a new excuse.

    Rumsfeld might well have been lying, but I don't think McGovern really caught him on anything.
     
  15. May 5, 2006 #14

    SOS2008

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    WTF? :confused:

    The minutes posted in the OP, along with the Downing Street Memo and other evidence, including verification from other credible sources (in addition to McGovern) show Bush knew there were no WMD before the invasion. (I'll try to remember to post the transcripts from last night when these come available.)

    I think McGovern did catch Rumsfeld red-handed, per excerpts from transcripts from the night before last:

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/04/acd.02.html & http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/04/acd.02.html

    McGovern went on to say troops acted on what they were told, so troop behavior cannot be used as evidence of anything. I agree.

    This is not making #1 headline news because of fatigue, timing, etc. The Dems are being smart and keeping their eye on the ball, which is the 2006 elections. Then as more and more information like this comes out, they can push past the likes of Pat Roberts :yuck: and get a real investigation going.

    In the meantime, I'd like to know why Republicans hate America so much?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2006
  16. May 5, 2006 #15

    Gokul43201

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    Pengwuino, I just don't get what you're objecting about. Every single news show about this has confirmed that Rumsfeld did make the statements that McGovern attributed to him.

    And now, Rumsfeld says "I never said that".

    Yeah, we've heard that line before. What is this, like the 15th time he's said, "I never said that", or "I had no idea about that", that's panned out to be untrue ? :rolleyes:

    And since when did people who've spent close to 3 decades, working in the CIA become random guys ?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2006
  17. May 6, 2006 #16

    Ivan Seeking

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    Please refrain from making such blanket statements. This is the sort of thing that has threatened the very existance of this forum a few times now.
     
  18. May 6, 2006 #17

    Astronuc

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    I'd be inclined to believe the latter.

    Clearly the Bush administration did not have incontrovertible evidence of weapons of mass destruction. On the other hand, they had strong motivation to believe that there were WMD present, and all they needed was to find one potential nuclear or chemical warhead.

    Bush had mentioned using US troops with regard to a dictator before the November election, and then, according to former Treas. Secretary Paul O'Neill, brought up Iraq during the first cabinet meeting (~Jan 01). The implication is that Bush had planned to invade Iraq and get Hussein well before 9/11/01.

    By the time of the invasion on March 03, they had high hopes of finding WMD. Wishful thinking perhaps.

    However, there appears to be strong indication that certain circumstantial evidence for Iraq's nuclear and chemical programs was indeed fabricated or embellished.
     
  19. May 6, 2006 #18

    SOS2008

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    Though that statement followed my comments about Pat Roberts, fair enough that it was a blanket statement. I will rephrase it to say: Why do so many Republicans hate America so much? When Republicans like Roberts, who are supported by a core base in that party, stand in the way of needed corrections to actions that have resulted in loss of lives and treasure or constitutional rights, then my statement is true and I stand by it. We must do what is in the interest of our country, not a party. I guarantee you I will not support Dems who are soft on illegal immigration (which I suspect could also be said of you, edward and others deemed "liberal" in this forum), so I expect those across the aisle to get real too.

    Back to the topic...and getting real... There have been many other credible sources in addition to McGovern who have spoken out about lies fed to Americans, going back a couple of years:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml

    More recently:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020902418.html

    And more:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60minutes/main1527749.shtml

    Back to McGovern, here is more on that:

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/04/acd.02.html

    It is said that Goss was not doing his job satisfactorily. Do you suppose the job of "cleaning house" and suppressing "leaks" is where he has failed? In any event, how much evidence will it take to convince Republicans that Bush should be impeached?

    Wishful, yes, and if WMD were not found they knew we would already be at war (oooops too late), and they could spin other reasons to justify why we should be there, such as insinuating connection between Saddam and 9-11, or simply that Saddam was Satan, and it worked.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2006
  20. May 7, 2006 #19

    Ivan Seeking

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    Well, I want to see those minutes. He says the Brits will confirm the claim.
     
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