Calculating Consistency of a Point Mass System w/ Dark Matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the consistency of a point mass system that includes both visible and dark matter particles. Participants explore how the presence of dark matter affects the motion of visible masses and the implications for understanding gravitational interactions in astrophysical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario involving a system of ##m + n## particles, where ##m## are visible and ##n## are dark matter particles, questioning how to calculate the necessary number of dark matter particles to achieve self-consistency in observed motions.
  • Another participant mentions the hypothesis of a dark matter halo surrounding galaxies and asks how to deduce the density distribution of dark matter from the observed motion of visible matter, emphasizing the electromagnetic interactions of visible matter.
  • A participant discusses the technique of inferring the existence of unseen astronomical bodies based on the motion of visible objects, noting that unique solutions may not exist due to observational indistinguishability of certain mass configurations.
  • One participant suggests a method for determining the required density of dark matter by comparing the gravitational force needed for circular motion of stars with the force produced by visible mass, assuming a spherically symmetric dark matter distribution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of clarity and understanding regarding the calculations involved in determining dark matter distribution. There is no consensus on the methods or implications of the calculations, and multiple competing views remain regarding the complexity of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the challenges of resolving many-body problems in gravitational dynamics, and the potential for non-unique solutions in observational contexts. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concepts and terminology involved.

hilbert2
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Suppose we have a point mass system that consists of ##m + n## particles. There are ##m## normal visible point masses and ##n## invisible "dark matter" point masses. The point masses interact gravitationally with a ##1/r## potential.

Now when someone observes the motion of the visible masses, he will notice that they are not consistent with Newton's laws of motion (of course, because the invisible masses perturb the trajectories of the visible masses).

The question is, can such an observer calculate how many dark matter point masses there must be in the observed system to make the system self-consistent, and what are their masses and trajectories? In what cases a unique solution exists to this problem?
 
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I probably didn't express this clearly enough... (English isn't my native language) I have seen that the observed rotational motion of galaxies is explained with a hypothesis that there is a "halo" of dark matter around all galaxies. How does one deduce the required density distribution of dark matter from the observed motion of visible matter? Here "visible matter" is something that interacts electromagnetically and not only gravitationally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter_halo
 
hilbert2 said:
The question is, can such an observer calculate how many dark matter point masses there must be in the observed system to make the system self-consistent, and what are their masses and trajectories? In what cases a unique solution exists to this problem?

This technique has been used to show the existence of astronomical bodies that aren't directly visible - for example, we infer the existence of a dark companion when we observe a bright star making otherwise unexplained motions. It's harder in a more complex many-body problem, of course, but in principle it's still possible.

The solutions need not be unique in any practical sense, because two bodies of mass M close enough to one another and distant enough from the other objects will be observationally indistinguishable from one body of mass 2M and located at their center of mass.
 
hilbert2 said:
I probably didn't express this clearly enough... (English isn't my native language) I have seen that the observed rotational motion of galaxies is explained with a hypothesis that there is a "halo" of dark matter around all galaxies. How does one deduce the required density distribution of dark matter from the observed motion of visible matter? Here "visible matter" is something that interacts electromagnetically and not only gravitationally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter_halo

That question is much easier to answer (The previous question is very interesting but not trivial at all).

It is very easy. Find out the force required to keep a star in circular motion around the center of the galaxy using F = mv2/r.

Compare that with the force produced by the gravitational force due to the visible mass.

Assume the difference between the two numbers is due to a spherically symmetric distribution of dark matter.

Compare that with the gravitational force produced by such a spherical mass distribution in order to figure its mass.

Voila!
 

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