Can a Balloon Float Inside a Hollow, Air-Filled Space Elevator?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a hollow cylindrical space elevator filled with air, where a balloon could be used to float to the top instead of a traditional payload ascent. The scope includes theoretical considerations and potential engineering challenges related to buoyancy, pressure gradients, and material properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the mass of air would be a significant issue, as air is not massless.
  • Others argue that the compressibility of air could create complications, particularly in maintaining a consistent pressure gradient within the elevator.
  • A participant raises concerns about friction, noting that the rotation of the Earth and the space elevator would introduce sideways forces on the structure as a climber ascends.
  • Another point made is that achieving 1 ATM of pressure at the top would necessitate extremely high pressures at the bottom, potentially leading to catastrophic failure or requiring immense energy input.
  • One participant mentions that high pressure and low temperature conditions could solidify air, complicating the ability to float within the elevator.
  • Concerns are also expressed about the mass required to construct a tower capable of containing solidified air.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the viability of using a balloon to ascend within a hollow space elevator, with no consensus reached on the feasibility or the specific challenges involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to assumptions about air behavior under varying pressures, the structural integrity of the elevator, and the energy requirements for maintaining the proposed conditions.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in theoretical engineering concepts, buoyancy in varying atmospheric conditions, and the challenges of space elevator design may find this discussion relevant.

udtsith
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What would the problems be with having a hollow cylindrical space elevator made of carbon (e.g. recent benzene linked chains) and instead of having the payload climb to the top you filled the inside with 1 ATM of air and floated to the top via balloon?
 
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udtsith said:
What would the problems be with having a hollow cylindrical space elevator made of carbon (e.g. recent benzene linked chains) and instead of having the payload climb to the top you filled the inside with 1 ATM of air and floated to the top via balloon?

There are two problems:
1. air is not massless
2. air is compressible (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometric_formula )
 
Friction? The Earth and space elevator rotate so as a climber ascends it must gain speed and will put sideways forces on the tower/tether.
 
udtsith said:
What would the problems be with having a hollow cylindrical space elevator made of carbon (e.g. recent benzene linked chains) and instead of having the payload climb to the top you filled the inside with 1 ATM of air and floated to the top via balloon?
As with the atmosphere outside, there would be a gradient of pressure as you go up. To have 1ATM at the top, you would need squiilions of ATM at the bottom. At best, it would be a bomb waiting to go off and at worst, it would require a fantastic input of energy to get those conditions.
 
The high pressure and low temperature would make air solid (everywhere apart from a tiny region close to the top). Hard to float up there.
Not to mention the huge amount of mass to build a tower of solid air.
 

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