Can a Magnet-Powered Wheel Generate Perpetual Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of using magnets to create a perpetual motion machine, specifically a magnet-powered wheel that could generate perpetual energy. Participants explore the feasibility of this idea, considering both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a design where a wheel with magnets could gain speed as it approaches a stationary magnet, suggesting that blocking the opposite side of the magnet could allow for continuous motion.
  • Another participant counters this idea by referencing the principles of magnetism, stating that the force required to separate the magnets would negate any momentum gained, thus preventing perpetual motion.
  • A participant acknowledges the counterargument, expressing realization about the limitations of the proposed design.
  • Another participant mentions that similar concepts have been proposed repeatedly throughout history, referencing a specific publication that discusses such inventions.
  • One participant expresses concern that the thread may not belong in the current forum, indicating a potential mismatch in discussion focus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the feasibility of the proposed magnet-powered wheel, with some supporting the idea and others firmly rejecting it based on established principles of physics. The discussion remains unresolved as no consensus is reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of the proposed design, including the dependence on magnetic field behavior and the challenges of achieving perpetual motion. There is an acknowledgment of historical attempts to create similar machines.

Gnophos
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I was thinking about perpetual motion and perpetual energy generation when I got to thinking about magnets. Now, for the record, I don't think this would really work, but I can't think of why not, so maybe you guys can educate me on this.

Open the attached image to look at while you read this. Now, the wheel is started in CCW motion. Each magnet on a spoke is drawn toward the magnet at the bottom (actually, two magnets, one on each side of the spokes -- see straight-on view), and thus speeds up the wheel a little as it gets closer; now, normally, each spoke-magnet would pass by the stationary magnet and then slow down, stop, and reverse direction, because it would seek to be as close to the magnet as possible, thus nullifying any increase in velocity.

But, what if the other side of the magnet is blocked by a non-magnetic metal or other material? The spoke-magnet speeds up a little, passes by the magnet, and keeps going, as it loses its attraction to the big magnet. The next magnet approaches, adds some speed to the system, and passes... etc. One could even improve upon this design by putting a magnet on the other side that has the same polarity as the spoke magnets, thus repelling them as they pass by, and adding more velocity.

Couldn't one draw power from this system in the same manner as a hydroelectric wheel being turned by water? Couldn't a large version of this generate some decent power?
 

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This follows the classic perpetual motion machine diagram, you can find threads here and many online that will explain how it doesn't work with gravity and similar properties exist for yours.

Namely, there is no real magnetic blocker. Magnetism has field lines that connect the poles of the magnet. Yes, you can do things to focus the field lines and so on, but even then there is no 'laser' focus you can apply.

So, while the one wheel magnet may be attracted to the stationary magent and rotate the wheel to align them, the force would change by the inverse square of the distance. To separate them, the same force would be needed on the other side and any mometum gained previously would be lost.
 
Cliff_J said:
Namely, there is no real magnetic blocker. Magnetism has field lines that connect the poles of the magnet. Yes, you can do things to focus the field lines and so on, but even then there is no 'laser' focus you can apply.

Ahhh, I didn't realize that. Well, there you go. I knew there had to be a reason this wasn't "invented" yet. Thanks!
 
It has been "invented", constantly and repeatedly, over and over again. Ad nauseam.
See "970 Mechanical Appliances and Novelties of Construction" by Gardner B. Hiscox. Originally published in 1904.
 
This is not a theory development forum. This shouldn't have been moved here.

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