Can a Simple Equation Unveil the Electron/Proton Mass Ratio?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the exploration of a proposed equation related to the electron/proton mass ratio. Participants examine the validity and implications of this equation, its simplicity, and its relation to known physical constants, while also addressing the concept of numerology in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation suggesting a relationship to the electron/proton mass ratio, noting it is surprisingly simple and yields a result close to the known ratio, albeit with significant error.
  • Another participant critiques the approach, labeling it as numerology and highlighting that protons are composite particles, with most of their mass arising from quark binding energy.
  • A reference is made to the Koide formula, which relates the masses of leptons, suggesting it is a more significant result than the proposed equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of the proposed equation, with one participant stating that the difference from the true value is much larger than the uncertainty, questioning the effectiveness of the trials conducted.
  • Anecdotal evidence is shared regarding a professor's claim about the fine structure constant, illustrating that unconventional theories can sometimes lead to significant discoveries.
  • Further discussion emphasizes the nature of the proposed equation as numerology, with participants expressing skepticism about its validity and relevance in physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity and significance of the proposed equation, with some viewing it as numerology and others expressing curiosity about its implications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the equation's relevance to established physics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proposed equation's accuracy is significantly off from the accepted value, and there are concerns about the nature of the operations used in the equation. The discussion highlights the complexity of relating simple equations to fundamental physical constants.

meadbert
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So I read somewhere about some equation that might explain the Electron/Proton mass ratio, but it was off by several percentage points and the equation seemed complicated.
Unfortunately I forget where I originally read this.
Anyway, I was not particularly impressed, so I wrote a C program to try billions of relatively simple equations and look for ones whose solutions come closest to the Electron/Proton mass ratio.
Obviously many of the more complicated ones had the right answer within machine or measured accuracy, but some did "silly" operations that I could nto see in physics such as taking a sine of sine. One surprisingly simple equations came reasonably close. It is off by less than a tenth of percent so it is obviously wrong, none the less I found it interesting. Essentially the program was looking for a coincidence and that is probably all it found, but here is the equation:

Let x = electron/proton mass ratio

sqrt(x) ~= sqrt(PI/3) - 1

Could be written as:
sqrt(PI/3) = sqrt(1) + sqrt(x)

The equation is similar to that of a circle, but with square roots instead of squares.
PI/3 is obviously very common being the angle of equilateral triangles. Sqrt(PI) is important in probability and statistics regarding the Beta function.

Anyway, I am not a Physicist having taken just 2 physics courses in college, but figured I would throw what is probably just a coincidence out there to see if it meant anything to anyone else.
 
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As pointed out, it's numerology. It's also wrong - the difference between your formula and the true value is 100,000 larger than the uncertainty on the true value.

To be honest, I am surprised with billions of trials, you didn't do better.
 
I had a professor in college who told us that the true blue value of the fine structure was exactly 1/137 (based on numerology?), and the disparity on the measured value (~1/137.02) was experimental error. Six years later, he won the Nobel prize in experimental physics. I guess anyone can have dubious theories once in a while.

Bob S
 
Vanadium 50 said:
As pointed out, it's numerology. It's also wrong - the To be honest, I am surprised with billions of trials, you didn't do better.

There were plenty of equations that were within machine/measured accuracy, but they were far more complex and did silly operations. As you say the error of .08% is far more than the measured error so it is clearly not the correct equation.

Essentially I scored answers by their accuracy, their simplicity and whether the equations did things that make sense in terms of units. Square of Square Root and Square Roots of Squares make sense. Sin of arctan makes sense. Stuff like Sin of Cos or Ln of Ln make less sense.

This one equation was an outlier, in that every equation more accurate was either far more complicated or did more "silly" operations.

These is numerology and is likely nothing more than noting 22/7 is close to pie, but I figured I would throw it out there in case some physicist saw the equation and recognized it from some other theory.
 

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