Can Matter Really Have Negative Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of negative energy in matter, particularly in the context of gravitational potential energy and its dependence on reference points. Participants explore the implications of mass and energy definitions in classical mechanics and relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the notion of negative energy is dependent on the chosen reference point, particularly in gravitational potential energy calculations.
  • Others argue that while gravitational potential energy can be negative, it is defined relative to a reference point, such as infinity.
  • A participant questions whether anything with positive mass must have positive energy, expressing uncertainty about this claim.
  • One participant emphasizes the need to understand classical mechanics better, noting that the definition of zero energy is arbitrary in Newtonian physics but is absolute in relativity.
  • Another participant mentions the Positive Energy Theorem, asserting that a particle's gravitational potential energy can be negative but cannot exceed its rest mass, leading to a sum that is always positive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between mass and energy, particularly regarding the definitions and implications of negative energy. There is no consensus on whether positive mass necessarily implies positive energy, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of energy reference points and the unresolved nature of the implications of the Positive Energy Theorem in the context of the discussion.

nouveau_riche
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can a matter have negative energy?
or more appropriately what makes some energy as negative?
 
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It just depends on what your reference point is. For example, as it is convention to have gravitational potential energy at an infinite distance away to be 0 joules, our calculations show GPE to be negative.
 
Bloodthunder said:
It just depends on what your reference point is. For example, as it is convention to have gravitational potential energy at an infinite distance away to be 0 joules, our calculations show GPE to be negative.

isn't that anything that has positive mass have positive energy?
i am not certain on that
 
nouveau_riche said:
isn't that anything that has positive mass have positive energy?
i am not certain on that

I think you need to step back and learn a bit more on classical mechanics.

One can easily see that, for example, in attractive energies (example: gravitational potential), it is DEFINED that zero is at infinity, and that the gravitational potential well is defined as being negative!

The same can be said about the potential that an electron has in an atom (look at the potential energy term in the Schrödinger equation).

So you need to learn a bit more of what we mean by negative energy, and why it is rather arbitrary in some sense.

Zz.
 
isn't that anything that has positive mass have positive energy?
i am not certain on that
nouveau_riche, You are absolutely correct, and this is not a trivial issue, as several responses have implied. It's true that in Newtonian physics the zero point of energy is arbitrary. You can define it to be the energy that a particle has as infinity, or you can define it to be the energy it has at the Earth's surface, as you like. But in relativity this is not the case. In relativity the zero point of energy is absolute. A particle's gravitational potential energy is negative but can never exceed its rest mass, and so the sum is always positive.

The statement you made, "anything that has positive mass must have positive energy" is known as the Positive Energy Theorem or Positive Mass Conjecture, and has been proved under rather general assumptions. See the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_energy_theorem, or google Positive Energy Theorem and you will find many references to it.
 

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