Can the information of the whole universe change?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of information and entropy in the universe, particularly how these concepts can change over time within the framework of quantum mechanics. Participants explore theoretical implications, definitions, and the relationship between entropy and information in both deterministic and probabilistic contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how information associated with the universe can change if nothing can enter or leave the universe as a whole, suggesting a paradox regarding the source of increasing information or entropy.
  • Others propose that quantum mechanics, being inherently probabilistic, allows for the addition of information with each quantum interaction, as only one possibility is realized from a set of potential outcomes.
  • One participant raises concerns about quantum processes that have infinite possible outcomes, such as in a double-slit experiment, and questions how entropy is defined in such scenarios where the likelihood of specific outcomes is extremely low.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that entropy and information are not tangible entities but rather metadata about events, and discusses the implications of the second law of thermodynamics in relation to the universe's isolation.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that if the universe is not an isolated system, as posited in Loop quantum cosmology, it may be possible for information to leave the universe through phenomena like black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of entropy and information, the implications of quantum mechanics, and whether the universe can be considered an isolated system. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of entropy and information, as well as the unresolved implications of quantum mechanics on the nature of the universe and its isolation.

friend
Messages
1,448
Reaction score
9
They say that the universe started with low entropy, which is a certain amount of information. But I wonder how the information associated with the whole universe can change. By definition nothing can ever leaves or enters the universe as a whole. And if nothing ever enters or leaves a system, then where does the source of increase in information or entropy come from?
 
Space news on Phys.org
I think the answer is that the universe is governed by quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics is not deterministic, but inherently probabilistic. Every quantum interaction has a set of possibilities, but eventually only one is realized. Every time this happens, information is added to the universe as a whole.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: stoomart
Aren't there quantum processes that have an infinite number of possible outcomes, like exactly where a particle strikes a screen in a two slit experiment? What's the entropy of those kinds of processes where the likelihood of one outcome is infinitesimal? Then multiply that by every interaction in the universe.
 
friend said:
By definition nothing can ever leaves or enters the universe as a whole.
I don't think entropy and information are things, they're more like metadata about events that can occur (entropy) or have occurred (information).

See Wikipedia's article Entropy (arrow of time):
Entropy is the only quantity in the physical sciences (apart from certain rare interactions in particle physics; see below) that requires a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time. As one goes "forward" in time, the second law of thermodynamics says, the entropy of an isolated system can increase, but not decrease.

If the universe is not an isolated system as proposed in Loop quantum cosmology, then things may be leaving it through black holes.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
8K
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K