Can the radio noise of a civilization decrease over time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential for a civilization's radio noise to decrease over time due to advancements in energy efficiency and changes in emission frequencies. Participants explore the implications of these factors in the context of detecting extraterrestrial civilizations, considering both technological developments and broader societal concerns.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that increased energy efficiency in radio technology could lead to a decrease in detectability of our civilization over time.
  • Others highlight the importance of emission power and frequency changes, noting that shorter wave ranges may affect detectability differently due to propagation characteristics.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the concern for detection by extraterrestrial civilizations, arguing that there are more pressing threats to humanity.
  • Another participant questions whether the original poster (OP) is more interested in remaining detectable rather than fearing detection.
  • There is a discussion on the best frequency bands for communication in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) and how changes in emissions over time may impact detection.
  • Some participants argue that Earth is already a detectable radio source due to its unique emission patterns, which differ from natural sources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the implications of technological advancements for detectability. While some focus on the potential for reduced detectability, others emphasize the unique characteristics of Earth's emissions and the broader context of societal threats.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the issue, including the dependence on emission frequencies, the evolution of technology, and the societal context influencing perceptions of detectability.

Line_112
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TL;DR Summary: Increased energy efficiency of radio technology could potentially make our civilization less detectable to potential aliens. However, there is very little information on the Internet about this.

This question is important in the context of the search for extraterrestrial civilizations. Relatively little time has passed since the invention of radio until now. During this time, the sensitivity of equipment has increased dramatically, which obviously allows us to reduce the power of the signals we emit and make us less detectable to potential aliens. However, there is very little information on this issue on the Internet. It is easy to find how the energy efficiency of lamps and cars is growing, but regarding, for example, cell towers or radars, there is almost no information. Is there progress in energy efficiency that could lead to a decrease in the detectability of our civilization in the future?
 
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One thing is power of emissions, another thing is changes in the frequencies used (basically we are emitting in the shorter and shorter wave ranges, so you need to take into account how these propagate). Some frequencies are easier to detect at the distance, some will be masked by the natural noise.

But yes, that's an interesting question, one that I tried to find some reliable answers to years ago (to no avail).
 
Line_112 said:
Is there progress in energy efficiency that could lead to a decrease in the detectability of our civilization in the future?
Statistics and history, show that we should fear the nearest totalitarian state. Whatever civilisation we pretend to have will be, given the chance, dragged back down, by the nearest barbarians.

A little bit of paranoia is necessary for community survival. Too much paranoia is a psychotic liability. Any fear of our detection, by unknown potential ET aliens, is misplaced. There are many greater cataclysms, now stalking us on this planet.
 
Baluncore said:
Statistics and history, show that we should fear the nearest totalitarian state. Whatever civilisation we pretend to have will be, given the chance, dragged back down, by the nearest barbarians.

A little bit of paranoia is necessary for community survival. Too much paranoia is a psychotic liability. Any fear of our detection, by unknown potential ET aliens, is misplaced. There are many greater cataclysms, now stalking us on this planet.
My read of the OP is that they would like to remain detectable, not that they are worried about detection. Of course, I could be misreading the OP.
 
Line_112 said:
This question is important in the context of the search for extraterrestrial civilizations.
In your searching, what frequency bands are best used for communicating in SETI? What frequencies are best for getting through interstellar dust and have the least natural interference sources? Knowing those frequencies will help to guide your searching for how our emissions in those bands may have changed over time.

Line_112 said:
During this time, the sensitivity of equipment has increased dramatically, which obviously allows us to reduce the power of the signals we emit and make us less detectable
Just because you can make a receive (Rx) circuit that is a little more sensitive, doesn't mean you will automatically reduce the transmit (Tx) power.
 
berkeman said:
My read of the OP is that they would like to remain detectable, not that they are worried about detection. Of course, I could be misreading the OP.
To be found, we would need only one single-frequency carrier, modulated by a slow repeating numerical pattern, like an emergency beacon. Every other transmission is irrelevant, simply part of the background noise floor.

To remain hidden, we would need to spread every carrier across the spectrum, down into the thermal or ionospheric noise. We would need to turn off all broadcast, satellite, and navigation stations. Changing all broadcast distribution to a network of optic fibre, or space laser links, would reduce our profile.
 
Baluncore said:
To be found, we would need only one single-frequency carrier

From my understanding Earth is a radio source in no way similar to natural sources, so we are already detectable without trying to emit any special signal. Earth emissions have 24h cycle defined by the geography and demographics, and emission spectrum is defined by legalese, not by natural emission processes. That makes us a rather unique source.

In the last 100 years technology and emissions changed a lot, so the spectrum we emit (power, frequencies) changed too. I see nothing paranoid about the question "how did it change ease of detecting Earth as a non natural source from the distance".
 

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