Can you prove these floor and ceiling equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving two statements related to floor and ceiling functions. The first statement concerns the relationship between the floor of a real number and the floor of its negative when the number is not an integer. The second statement involves the floor function applied to a number divided by 4 and its relation to the floor of half that number divided by 2.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that for any real number x that is not an integer, the equation floor(x) + floor(-x) = -1 holds true.
  • Another participant expresses a relationship between floor(x) and a variable a, stating floor(x) = x - a, where 0 <= a < 1, and similarly for floor(-x) with a variable b.
  • A subsequent post reiterates the relationship between a and b, questioning why a + b = 1, indicating confusion over this assertion.
  • One participant suggests that further contemplation of the provided hint will lead to the proof for the first statement and that a similar argument can be applied to the second proof.
  • A mathematical formulation is presented that defines floor(x) in terms of the maximum integer less than x, leading to a derivation that supports the first statement about floor(x) + floor(-x).
  • For the second proof, a participant suggests analyzing cases based on the form of x, specifically 4n+y and 4n+2+y, and provides a detailed breakdown of how to approach the proof using these cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement regarding the proofs. Some participants appear to support the initial claims, while others express confusion or challenge the reasoning, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of floor functions and relies on specific cases for the second proof, which may not cover all scenarios. There are unresolved questions about the relationships between the variables a and b.

Walshy1
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Hi, i need help with 2 proofs based off of floor and ceiling.
1.)For any real number x, if x is not an integer, then floor(x) + floor(-x) =- 1.2.For all real numbers x, floor(floor(x/2)/2) = floor(x/4).

Thanks.
 
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floor(x) = x - a, where 0 <= a < 1

floor(-x) = -x - b, where 0 <= b < 1

You tell me why a + b = 1
 
tkhunny said:
floor(x) = x - a, where 0 <= a < 1

floor(-x) = -x - b, where 0 <= b < 1

You tell me why a + b = 1
I'm sorry that makes no sense to me.
 
I urge you to think more about the given hint...it leads immediately to the proof you seek.

Once this clicks, a very similar argument will work for the second proof.
 
$ \lfloor{x}\rfloor = \max\{m\in\mathbb{Z}\mid m < x\}$ when $x$ is not an integer, thus:

$ \begin{aligned} \lfloor{x}\rfloor+\lfloor{-x}\rfloor & = \max\{m\in\mathbb{Z}\mid m < x\}+\max\{m\in\mathbb{Z}\mid m < -x\} \\& = \max\{m\in\mathbb{Z}\mid 2m < 0\} = \max\{m\in\mathbb{Z}\mid m < 0\} \\& = -1.\end{aligned}$

This addition (of sets usually) is called Minkowski addition.
 
For the second problem, you can consider cases when $x$ has the form $4n+y$ and $4n+2+y$ where $n\in\mathbb{Z}$ and $0\le y<2$. For example, suppose that $x=4n+y$. Then $x/2=2n+y/2$. Since $0\le y/2<1$, $\lfloor x/2\rfloor=2n$. Therefore, $\lfloor\lfloor x/2\rfloor/2\rfloor=n$. Now you show that $\lfloor (4n+y)/4\rfloor=n$. Also, show that $\lfloor\lfloor x/2\rfloor/2\rfloor=\lfloor x/4\rfloor$ when $x=4n+2+y$ where $n\in\mathbb{Z}$ and $0\le y<2$
 

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