Coming Pandemonium: Peak Oil & its Consequences

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of peak oil, exploring potential societal, economic, and environmental consequences. Participants express a range of predictions and concerns regarding the future, including economic collapse, resource wars, and shifts in energy production methods, as well as the historical context of these issues.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant predicts a series of catastrophic events within 2-10 years due to peak oil, including economic collapse, famine, and resource wars.
  • Another participant suggests that building nuclear power plants could be a viable alternative to conflict over oil resources.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the inevitability of the dire predictions, arguing that human adaptability may mitigate these outcomes.
  • A participant questions the significance of oil in manufacturing goods like plastics, suggesting it may not be a critical issue.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for chaos resulting from even small drops in oil production, referencing historical precedents from the 1970s.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of nuclear power, including the finite supply of uranium and the scale of infrastructure needed to replace oil.
  • One participant challenges the claim of a new law allowing indentured servitude, seeking clarification on its existence.
  • Another participant highlights the economic dynamics of oil supply and the influence of corporations on energy availability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement, with some supporting the predictions of catastrophic outcomes while others challenge their inevitability and propose alternative solutions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the future implications of peak oil.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference historical events and economic principles, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the timeline and severity of potential consequences. The discussion includes speculative claims about future societal changes without consensus on their validity.

corra
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Within 2-10 years all these things will have happened to this planet.

1: Crash of the american dollar.
2: Worldwide recession.
3: Famine and disease catastrophes in 3 world countries.
4: Rescource wars in the middle east to secure oil rights.
5: Israel going into Iran backed by the U.S (under the exuse of the nuclear programme)
6: Suburbian ghost towns will crop up all over the United States as people move back into cities or out to towns and villages.
7: Indentured servants will be brought back in the us due to the large amounts of people not being able to pay their mortgages when recession hits. (new law passed recently allowing this)
8: The end of the green revolution.
9: Massive increase in CO2 pollution due to increase in coal plants.
10: Un-employment sky rocketing in the U.S where 15% of all jobs directly and indirectly cater to the automobile industry.

All this WILL happen and for 1 reason. Peak oil.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
Has all you need to know about peak oil and if you read the paper you will be shocked, depressed and enlightened all at once.
It is a must read if you have not heard about Peak oil before.

http://www.energybulletin.net/news.php?cat=30
Daily updates about news covering the oil crisis.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/07/09/oilshortage070709.html#skip300x250
July 9th report that admits that the signs will be clear very soon.
 
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Or, we could build a bunch of nuclear power plants...
 
cyrusabdollahi said:
Or, we could build a bunch of nuclear power plants...

Exactly. I really think it will be easier to build nuclear plants than to go to war with the rest of the world. Why would we go to war over the rest of the leftover oil if we have a way of making energy that is cheaper than war. There are other sources of power out there man. The only reason we are not using them is because we have oil. We continue to use it because it is there and we're used to using it. Personally, I want oil to peak. It will mean a new form of energy will have to be used and we can finally move on as a society. There will probably be a little trouble, but nothing like what you're talking about.
 
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Within the next 2-10 years not nearly enough people that latch onto the proclaimations of anyone minus critical thinking will die to save the human race from destruction through its own ignorance.

While I acknowledge the problems that are going to be realized when oil and natural gas run out, I don't for a moment think that the human race is so inflexible that all of these will come true.
 
Number 3 on your list has been happening on and off for centuries
#4, has been going on for decades now, and for water rights, centuries.
#6 My city {Detroit} couldn't house the people of the burbs.
# 7 is just too outragious to comment on.
#10 My area has been laying off/buying out auto related employees, for over 20 years. The unemployment here is already one of the highest in the nation. Most states are unlike Michigan, in the fact that they are not so dependent on autos.

I also give us more credit, that your Mad Max predictions will not come true.
 
We are all going to die! There is no doubt about it.

These are the best of times, and the worst of times, which is nothing new.
 
Ivan Seeking said:
We are all going to die! There is no doubt about it.

WHAT! No one told me! I feel so betrayed. I had all these plans lined up for my days as an immortal.:rolleyes:
 
half of those already happened...
 
corra said:
Within 2-10 years all these things will have happened to this planet.

1: Crash of the american dollar.
2: Worldwide recession.
3: Famine and disease catastrophes in 3 world countries.
4: Rescource wars in the middle east to secure oil rights.
5: Israel going into Iran backed by the U.S (under the exuse of the nuclear programme)
6: Suburbian ghost towns will crop up all over the United States as people move back into cities or out to towns and villages.
7: Indentured servants will be brought back in the us due to the large amounts of people not being able to pay their mortgages when recession hits. (new law passed recently allowing this)
8: The end of the green revolution.
9: Massive increase in CO2 pollution due to increase in coal plants.
10: Un-employment sky rocketing in the U.S where 15% of all jobs directly and indirectly cater to the automobile industry.

All this WILL happen and for 1 reason. Peak oil.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
Has all you need to know about peak oil and if you read the paper you will be shocked, depressed and enlightened all at once.
It is a must read if you have not heard about Peak oil before.

http://www.energybulletin.net/news.php?cat=30
Daily updates about news covering the oil crisis.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/07/09/oilshortage070709.html#skip300x250
July 9th report that admits that the signs will be clear very soon.

You would probably get a lot more traction if you discussed your concerns without making predictions as if they were written in stone.
 
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  • #10
G01 said:
Exactly. I really think it will be easier to build nuclear plants than to go to war with the rest of the world. Why would we go to war over the rest of the leftover oil if we have a way of making energy that is cheaper than war. There are other sources of power out there man. The only reason we are not using them is because we have oil. We continue to use it because it is there and we're used to using it. Personally, I want oil to peak. It will mean a new form of energy will have to be used and we can finally move on as a society. There will probably be a little trouble, but nothing like what you're talking about.

Nuclear plants do not provide the raw material we need from oil.
 
  • #11
What fraction of our oil is used to make plastics and other manufactured goods? Is that really a significant issue?
 
  • #12
You left out second hand smoke.
 
  • #13
wolram said:
Nuclear plants do not provide the raw material we need from oil.

True, but the oil supply does not "snap shut" after peak. Even if we hit peak today, the "second half" of the oil supply is still to be brought out of the ground (and even the "third half" which is believed to be unretrievable). The first half was the easy, cheap half. The second half will be controlled by a few huge corporations that do not want to go bankrupt. The energy supply already is carefully portioned, rationed, and deliberately squeezed to maximize current and future profits. These oil companies know exactly what they are doing (This is probably why Haliburton inserted an operator into the White House; the Iraq oil fields are an important part of the remaining supply. "Go **** yourself!")

Simple economics will force us to change our lifestyles for expensive oil, just as our lifestyles have been changed by cheap oil.

"All this WILL happen." No one, NO one can seem to predict next year correctly. Who among us can predict the next ten years?
 
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  • #14
nuclear power taking over as the main power delivery system would burn through our remaining uranium in 20 years, not to mention that to replace oil we would need 10.000 of the biggest possible nuclear plants.

It does not require much to create chaos. during the seventies there was a drop in oil production of 5% it created recessions and petrol lines at the gas stations that were miles long and rationing of fuel.
imagine what will happen when the drop is 10%... 20%...30%...
it will happen and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.

only thing we can do is find alternatives and we do not have the time, we waited to long and peak oil is here now.
 
  • #15
show me this law that was passed that allows indentured servitude, btw pandemonium literally means all-demon; it's a perversion of pantheon. so unless you mean demons are going to come out of the ground i don't think you mean pandemonium
 
  • #17
corra said:
only thing we can do is find alternatives and we do not have the time, we waited to long and peak oil is here now.

There are loads of alternatives. Its is even possible now for a home in the UK to be energy self sufficient using existing photovoltaic cell technology. The only reason homes are not self sufficient is because it would be bad for business and thus government revenue to allow everybody to be energy self sufficient, so the price of converting remains high.
 
  • #18
http://bankruptcy.findlaw.com/new-bankruptcy-law/
it passed in 2005 and was aproved by bush.

basically it means the landlord can kick you out and to pay off your debts you become property of whatever company bought your debt.
That company will keep you as an employee until your debt has been paid through work.

besides Pandemonium will prove a proper description of the coming years.
 
  • #19
corra said:
http://bankruptcy.findlaw.com/new-bankruptcy-law/
it passed in 2005 and was aproved by bush.

basically it means the landlord can kick you out and to pay off your debts you become property of whatever company bought your debt.
That company will keep you as an employee until your debt has been paid through work.

besides Pandemonium will prove a proper description of the coming years.

:confused::confused: it doesn't mention anything like that on any site about the reformed bankruptcy law
 
  • #20
ice109 said:
show me this law that was passed that allows indentured servitude, btw pandemonium literally means all-demon; it's a perversion of pantheon. so unless you mean demons are going to come out of the ground i don't think you mean pandemonium

I think you are using the word in the wrong context. I've noticed you take a lot of what people say way too literally sometimes. You don't have Aspergers or something, do you? Sometimes I feel like you don't get the context of the discussion (No offense).

3not capitalized : a wild uproar :

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pandemonium
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pandemonium

There is more than one meaning of the word, as I am sure you are aware.
 
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  • #21
cyrusabdollahi said:
I think you are using the word in the wrong context. I've noticed you take a lot of what people say way too literally sometimes. You don't have Aspergers or something, do you? Sometimes I feel like you don't get the context of the discussion (No offense).



http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pandemonium
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pandemonium

There is more than one meaning of the word, as I am sure you are aware.

it was a joke dude. relax. the meat of the post was show me the law not the btw. And yes outside of General Discussion i use language very formally, as it should be used when discussing erudite things.
 
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  • #22
I know that, I am not trying to chew you out. I just noticed you take words very literally sometimes. What I am trying to say is that you should relax. :-p
 
  • #23
I think cora meant demons will be coming out of the ground, it would be in line with the other predictions.
 
  • #24
i still want to see the indentured servant clause in the bankruptcy law
 
  • #25
ice109 said:
i still want to see the indentured servant clause in the bankruptcy law
I think the law has been changed recently to make it harder for an individual to file for bankruptcy. If you owe money and can't pay, and can't file for bankruptcy either, then you spend the rest of your life in debt to your creditors. It is a little like indentured servitude. However, I do not know what you would have to do to get yourself into such a situation. There is still chapter 7 and chapter 13 bankruptcy on the books. Corra, do you know the exact conditions under which an individual would not be able to declare bankruptcy? Is there a threshold above which creditors would have access to your money?
 
  • #26
jimmysnyder said:
I think the law has been changed recently to make it harder for an individual to file for bankruptcy. If you owe money and can't pay, and can't file for bankruptcy either, then you spend the rest of your life in debt to your creditors. It is a little like indentured servitude. However, I do not know what you would have to do to get yourself into such a situation. There is still chapter 7 and chapter 13 bankruptcy on the books. Corra, do you know the exact conditions under which an individual would not be able to declare bankruptcy? Is there a threshold above which creditors would have access to your money?

peruse his link. the new laws make it harder for you to file chapter 7 instead of chapter 13. under chapter 7 you didn't and don't really repay anything, they take some of your stuff that can be liquidated and that's it. under chapter 13 they do that and you have to make payments for 5 years. neither of which is indentured servitude.
 
  • #27
Evo said:
I think cora meant demons will be coming out of the ground, it would be in line with the other predictions.

Problem solved - we just turn the demons into oil, "put an imp in your tank".
 
  • #28
ice109 said:
you have to make payments for 5 years.
Have to? What if you don't?
 
  • #29
jimmysnyder said:
Have to? What if you don't?
If your situation changes to where you can no longer meet the previously scheduled payments, you would go back to court to prove the change in your financial situation and a new ruling.
 
  • #30
Evo said:
If your situation changes to where you can no longer meet the previously scheduled payments, you would go back to court to prove the change in your financial situation and a new ruling.
Thanks Evo. So corra's list is down to nine. I hope I speak for you and everyone else on this thread when I express my guarded optimism at this glimmer of hope. Unfortunately, I have an item of my own to add. Due to the recent massive leak at the nuclear reactor in Japan (it seems that preliminary reports of 60,000,000,000,000,000,000 femtobequerels may have been grossly underestimated by 5,000 basis points.) This is way above the Godzilla threshold. If the last three installments of the franchise are to be believed, this means that the monster will be treating passengers on the Yamanote line like so much kaiten sushi within days. With Tokyo devastated, Osaka will emerge as a world power. Within weeks we'll all be speaking Japanese with a Hanshin accent. The dollar will fall, the yen will rise and the bolivar will move sideways. We may not live long enough to suffer from the other items.

Corra, never bet on disaster. You can't collect.
 
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