Comparing Acids: H_2 C_2 O_4 & H_3 O^+

  • Thread starter Thread starter danago
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Acids
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around predicting the extent of the reaction between oxalic acid (H2C2O4) and water, focusing on the relative strengths of the acids involved. Participants explore how to determine acid strength without access to pKa values, considering theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the reaction to compare the strengths of H2C2O4 and H3O+ to predict the reaction's extent.
  • Another participant recommends looking up Ka or pKa values to assess acid strength.
  • A different reply emphasizes the need to find the pKa of oxalic acid to determine relative concentrations of H3O+ and C2H2O4.
  • One participant expresses concern about not having covered pKa values in class, questioning whether knowledge of these values is essential for the exam.
  • Another response suggests that the teacher may have provided alternative methods for determining acid strength or overlooked the application of pKa in this context.
  • It is proposed that understanding inorganic molecular structure concepts may be necessary to predict acid strength without relying solely on pKa tables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to approach the problem without pKa values, with some advocating for the use of tables while others suggest alternative methods based on molecular structure concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the necessity of knowing pKa values for the exam and the implications of not having covered this material in class.

danago
Gold Member
Messages
1,118
Reaction score
4
Using the following reaction for example:

[tex] H_2 C_2 O_4 _{(aq)} + H_2 O_{(l)} \to HC_2 O_4 ^ - _{(aq)} + H_3 O^ + _{(aq)} [/tex]

The question asks to predict weather the reaction will occur to a large or small extent. What i would usually do is decide weather the [tex]H_2 C_2 O_4[/tex] or the conjugate acid of water is a stronger acid (via a table or otherwise), and the reaction with the consumption stronger acid will be favoured.

Is there any way i can determine the relative strengths of two acids given just their chemical formula?

Thanks in advance
Dan.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Look up a table of Ka or pKa values.
 
Not really. You need to look up the pKa of oxalic acid. Use the definition for pKa to determine the relative concentrations (not strengths) of H3O+ and C2H2O4.
 
Wow, Gokul's fast...
 
Thanks for the replies :)

For some reason, we completely skipped the chapter on pKa values of acids and bases, and were told that we arent going to need to know them for our exam.

So would that mean its just a matter of knowing it? I either know it or i dont?
 
danago said:
Thanks for the replies :)

For some reason, we completely skipped the chapter on pKa values of acids and bases, and were told that we arent going to need to know them for our exam.

So would that mean its just a matter of knowing it? I either know it or i dont?

Either your teacher has given you some other information that you can use to determine strength (concentration) or has overlooked how to apply pKa to the problem. Your teacher must have given you a ranking for organic acid strengths.
 
You are probably expected to apply an inorganic molecular structure concept of acid strength. Otherwise, you have no need to merely predict - only to check Ka tables.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
9K