Controversial: Harald Schumacher's Assault on Patrick Battiston in 1982

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the controversial incident involving Harald Schumacher's assault on Patrick Battiston during the 1982 World Cup, as well as reflections on the legacy of Bobby Charlton and the historical context of England's footballing experiences, particularly in relation to penalty shootouts and rivalries with Germany.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Historical
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reflect on Bobby Charlton's legacy, noting his talent and humility, while others share memories of iconic moments from his career.
  • There is a mention of the emotional impact of England's football history, particularly regarding the 1966 World Cup and subsequent matches against Germany.
  • Participants discuss the concept of trauma associated with England's penalty shootout history, with references to specific matches and the cultural significance of these events.
  • One participant raises the question of terminology related to Schumacher's assault on Battiston, prompting a debate about the appropriateness of discussing past incidents in the context of football rivalries.
  • Another participant expresses frustration with the focus on historical grievances, suggesting that discussions should be more about current achievements and fair play.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of nostalgia and frustration regarding England's football history, with some agreeing on the emotional weight of past events while others disagree on the relevance of discussing historical incidents like Schumacher's assault. The discussion remains unresolved with competing views on how to approach these topics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the emotional impact of football events and the definitions of terms used in the context of rivalries. The conversation reflects a blend of personal experiences and historical references without reaching a consensus on the appropriateness of certain comparisons.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in football history, particularly the dynamics of England and Germany's football rivalry, as well as those exploring the cultural impact of significant footballing events.

pinball1970
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What I remember is the iconic photograph of England's world-cup-winning side of 1966, where Charlton didn't look joyful or triumphant, but rather haggard - as if the two hours of the final had been a gruelling experience. Bobby Charlton, for those who don't know, is in the foreground on the right.

(Sir) Geoff Hurst, standing in the left middle, is the only one still alive now.

The captain holding the trophy, Bobby Moore, died of cancer aged only 51.

1697911659061.jpeg
 
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PeroK said:
What I remember is the iconic photograph of England's world-cup-winning side of 1966, where Charlton didn't look joyful or triumphant, but rather haggard - as if the two hours of the final had been a gruelling experience. Bobby Charlton, for those who don't know, is in the foreground on the right.

(Sir) Geoff Hurst, standing in the left middle, is the only one still alive now.

The captain holding the trophy, Bobby Moore, died of cancer aged only 51.

View attachment 333961
Yes he looks spent exhausted. He was so special but humble as well. After Munich he thought he was chosen to play for England in 58 because of sympathy.

You cannot get more British than Pathe news and this shows some of his skills.
 
Different styles, this guy could do anything.

 
pinball1970 said:
He was a fantastic player but a gentleman too. If you were born in the the UK in the 1960s you were brought up with him, synonymous with talent and success.

He achieved everything as a player domestic and international.

RIP Bobby.

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...r-bobby-charlton-dies-aged-86-latest-tributes
Not only in the UK. I, too, recognized his name the moment I saw this thread. However, you know, I will not mention the war goal.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Not only in the UK. I, too, recognized his name the moment I saw this thread. However, you know, I will not mention the war goal.
You repaid us in 1990 and 1996 I think!
 
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fresh_42 said:
It's a bit of a trauma. We even have a specific word for it! And a Wikipedia page:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wembley-Tor
VAR should eradicate the vast majority of those type of issues today.
Take comfort in the fact that your record in the world cup is second only to Brazil.
I still watch the 2014 match now and again, every Brit I know (I know a few) wanted Germany to win.
 
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  • #10
pinball1970 said:
We should have a page for England penalty shootouts.
At least an entire paragraph on our site was dedicated to it:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfmeterschießen#Geschichte
Als sprichwörtlich erfolglose Mannschaft im Elfmeterschießen gilt die englische Nationalmannschaft. Sie musste von 1990 bis 2021 bei Welt- und Europameisterschaften neunmal zum Elfmeterschießen antreten und verlor dabei siebenmal (WM-Halbfinale 1990 und EM-Halbfinale 1996 jeweils gegen Deutschland, WM-Achtelfinale 1998 gegen Argentinien, EM-Viertelfinale 2004 und WM-Viertelfinale 2006 jeweils gegen Portugal und EM-Viertelfinale 2012 und EM-Finale 2021 gegen Italien). Siege im Elfmeterschießen gelangen ihr im Viertelfinale der Europameisterschaft 1996 gegen Spanien im eigenen Land und bei der Fußball-Weltmeisterschaft 2018 in Russland im Achtelfinale gegen Kolumbien. Die Negativ-Serie wird von englischen Fans und Medien geflissentlich verfolgt. So auch, als England im Halbfinale der U-21-EM 2017 im Elfmeterschießen ausschied. Der Evening Standard meldete: „It was an all too familiar story …“ („Es war eine nur zu bekannte Geschichte …“), während der Sieg bei der WM 2018 entsprechend gefeiert wurde.
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The English national team is considered to be the proverbial unsuccessful team in penalty shootouts. From 1990 to 2021, she had to go to penalty shoot-outs nine times at World and European Championships and lost seven times (the 1990 World Cup semi-finals and the 1996 European Championship semi-finals each against Germany, the 1998 World Cup round of 16 against Argentina, the 2004 European Championship quarter-finals and the 2006 World Cup quarter-finals each against Portugal and the 2012 European Championship quarter-finals and the 2021 European Championship finals against Italy). She won on penalties in the quarter-finals of the 1996 European Championship against Spain in her own country and at the 2018 World Cup in Russia in the round of 16 against Colombia. The negative series is being followed diligently by English fans and the media. This was also the case when England were eliminated on penalties in the semi-finals of the 2017 U-21 European Championship. The Evening Standard reported: “It was an all too familiar story…” while the 2018 World Cup victory was celebrated accordingly.
 
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fresh_42 said:
It's a bit of a trauma. We even have a specific word for it! And a Wikipedia page:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wembley-Tor
What word do you use for Harald Schumacher's (unpunished) assault on Patrick Battiston in 1982?
 
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  • #12
fresh_42 said:
At least an entire paragraph on our site was dedicated to it:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfmeterschießen#Geschichte

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I remember all of them. Finals are meaningless if you do not win and England do not win, not in my life time. Sorry (Sir Bobby) I am not de-railing my own thread but if you want to be considered a success you have to produce results.
Btw, Nobby Styles is the 5 foot 6 toothless guy on the far left of the picture.
Manc lad, fearless, hard as nails. A winner, needs a mention.
 
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  • #13
PeroK said:
What word do you use for Harald Schumacher's (unpunished) assault on Patrick Battiston in 1982?
That was not good. Germany have won fairly and in style since then though yes? (He says trying to avoid some sort of clash of the Titans)
 
  • #14
PeroK said:
What word do you use for Harald Schumacher's (unpunished) assault on Patrick Battiston in 1982?
Really? Do you want to go that low? Not that I do not have weapons for such a fight, but that is way too stupid. Once again, an Englishman (I censored the word I really thought of) who is confirming my prejudice that you can only talk and celebrate with Scottsmen about football.

Since there are no Scottsmen here I am out.