Could a Moon Be Transformed into a Mini Sun?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the hypothetical scenario of transforming a moon into a mini sun, as inspired by concepts from Olaf Stapledon's book Star Maker. Participants consider the feasibility of illuminating a moon to support life, either by detaching it from a solar system or enhancing its mass and energy output. The conversation touches on theoretical implications for gravitational effects, energy output, and the potential for a molten satellite to supplement sunlight.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a moon could be turned into a star by adding mass until thermonuclear reactions occur, noting that this would require approximately 10^29 kg of mass.
  • Another participant questions how much mass could be added to the moon before it adversely affects Earth, speculating that a 10% increase might have significant effects.
  • There is a discussion about the energy output of the moon if it were to be transformed, with a participant stating that a minimum of 5% of solar mass is needed for a nuclear reaction to start.
  • Participants explore the idea of conveying mass to the moon, suggesting that any mass could work, but density and source of the mass would be considerations.
  • One participant proposes the possibility of creating a molten satellite that could emit heat without becoming a full star, indicating that heat from compression could occur with added mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the feasibility and implications of transforming a moon into a sun, with no consensus reached on the specifics of mass addition, energy output, or the effects on Earth.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes uncertainties regarding the exact effects of mass addition on gravitational and tidal forces, as well as the energy output from a transformed moon. The limitations of current scientific understanding and the hypothetical nature of the scenario are acknowledged.

bcohen1
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Hi everybody,

I apologize if this has been asked already - I searched for a similar topic to no avail. My question regards something touched upon briefly in Olaf Stapledon's book Star Maker. Stapledon writes of interstellar travel being acheived by detaching a planet from a solar system and hurtling it toward a nearby star. So that the inhabitants of said planet don't freeze to death, they would somehow illuminate a satellite that would then orbit the planet, acting as a tiny mobile sun.

My initial question is, how would you achieve this hypothetically? Would you irridiate the moon somehow? What kind of reaction would you need to create?

Furthermore, if (again, extremely hypothetically) our sun became dimmer and we wanted to illuminate our own moon without necessarily detaching the Earth from our solar system, what would the effect be? How would an illuminated moon (for lack of a better term) affect our tide, planetary wobble, gravitational attraction to the other planets, etc.

I'm just really curious about this and I know it's pretty far out, but I'm not a scientist of any kind and I don't really know any scientists, so I was hoping that somebody here might be able to help. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and I hope you all have a nice day!

Kind regards,
Ben Cohen
 
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You can turn the moon (or anything else) into a star by just dumping mass on it.
As the mass increases the pressure at the centre increases until a thermonuclear reaction starts and you have a sun.
The minimum mass for a star is probably around 5% of the mass of the sun. The moon is only about 1% of the mass of the Earth and the Earth is only 1/millionth the mass of the sun, so you are going to have to drop a lot of mass on the moon (about 10^29kg) to make it a star.

Needless to say it wouldn't be very pleasant being that close to even a very small star - so you would also want to move the moon away a little.
 
Thank you so much for your reply! I have a few followup questions, if you don't mind.

First of all, how much mass could you dump onto the moon before it started to adversely affect the Earth in some way (gravitational, tidal or otherwise)?

How much energy would the moon output if you were to dump this maximum 'safe' amount of mass onto it?

How might you convey this mass to the moon? Would you have to create some kind of heavy element there?

Finally, if you didn't want to turn the moon into a full blown star, would there be a way to dump just enough mass into it to turn it into some kind of molten satellite that could act as a supplement to the sun if the sun was to dim, or if we weren't able to receive the same output from the sun that we do now, or some like scenario?

Sorry if these questions don't make any sense, and thanks again for any help.
 
bcohen1 said:
First of all, how much mass could you dump onto the moon before it started to adversely affect the Earth in some way (gravitational, tidal or otherwise)?
Tricky - it depends what you mean by affect.
I really don't know, I imagine any significant mass increase (10% or so) would have an effect. The tides affect us now, would a 1m higher tide affect us - it would flood a few cities?

How much energy would the moon output if you were to dump this maximum 'safe' amount of mass onto it?
5% of the solar mass is the minimum for a star to turn on. Less than this you don't have a nuclear reaction at all.
You would still generate some heat just from the compression as you dump more mass onto it (a bit like air in a bike pump getting hot). Jupiter is about 50x too small to be a star but still generates more heat than it receives form the sun.

How might you convey this mass to the moon? Would you have to create some kind of heavy element there?
Getting it there, and finding somewhere to get it from is of course tricky - but ultimately any mass will do. The sun and Jupiter are mostly made of hydrogen - the lightest element.
But the density of the sun and Jupiter are only a bit more than water, if you had unlimited supplies of lead or depleted uranium or something you could make a much smaller denser object that would heat up.

Finally, if you didn't want to turn the moon into a full blown star, would there be a way to dump just enough mass into it to turn it into some kind of molten satellite that could act as a supplement to the sun if the sun was to dim, or if we weren't able to receive the same output from the sun that we do now, or some like scenario?
Yes, as with Jupiter as you dump mass it beings to compress it gives off heat. Since it is still pretty cold this is in the form of infrared and so wouldn't light up the sky.
I'm guessing that you wouldn't get a high enough temperature form an object to glow in the visible until you dumped enough mass on it that it became a star.
 

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