Derivation of Solution to nonlinear 2nd Order ODE

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the solution for a nonlinear second-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) of the form y'' + g(t,y(t)) = 0, with specified initial conditions. Participants explore the transformation of the differential equation into an equivalent integral equation and the challenges associated with finding an analytical solution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proposed solution involving an integral expression but acknowledges uncertainty about the assumptions needed for the solution, particularly regarding damping.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of the proposed solution, stating that it is not a solution but rather an integral equation equivalent to the differential equation.
  • A different participant asserts that solving the equation analytically in the general case is unlikely, suggesting that specific forms of g may allow for solutions.
  • One participant seeks assistance in deriving the equivalent integral equation and expresses a need for clarification on the transformation process.
  • A later reply provides guidance on converting the differential equation to a Volterra integral equation and references a transformational formula for integration.
  • Another participant shares their experience with a homework assignment, indicating they were expected to derive the transformation independently and are struggling with the underlying concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of deriving an analytical solution for the ODE, with some suggesting that it may only be possible for specific functions g. There is no consensus on the assumptions required for the proposed solution or the transformation process.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of transforming double integrals into single integrals and the need for a deeper understanding of the underlying mathematical techniques. Some limitations in the discussion include the dependence on specific forms of g and the unresolved nature of the transformation process.

X89codered89X
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I need to derive the solution for the differential equation analytically:

y'' + g(t,y(t)) = 0
y'(0) = z_o
y(0) = y_o

I know the solution is:

y(t) = y_o + z_ot - single integral from 0 to t of (t-s)g(s,y(s))ds

I believe I need to assume something about the solution being a function of e^at somehow due to no damping, but I'm not sure.
 
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X89codered89X said:
I need to derive the solution for the differential equation analytically:

y'' + g(t,y(t)) = 0
y'(0) = z_o
y(0) = y_o

I know the solution is:

y(t) = y_o + z_ot - single integral from 0 to t of (t-s)g(s,y(s))ds

I believe I need to assume something about the solution being a function of e^at somehow due to no damping, but I'm not sure.
What you give is NOT a solution because it involves the unknown function, y, in the integral. It is, rather, an integral equation equivalent to the given differential equation.
 
And to add to what Halls said, there is no hope of solving your equation analytically in the general case. With some specific functions g it is possible.
 
Well, Halls yes. I suppose I'm not supposed to find a specific solution to the differential equation. But i do need to derive that equivalent integral equation. Can you help?
 
X89codered89X said:
I need to derive the solution for the differential equation analytically:

y'' + g(t,y(t)) = 0
y'(0) = z_o
y(0) = y_o

I know the solution is:

y(t) = y_o + z_ot - single integral from 0 to t of (t-s)g(s,y(s))ds

I believe I need to assume something about the solution being a function of e^at somehow due to no damping, but I'm not sure.

You don't need to assume that. But you do need to know how to convert a differential equation to an equivalent Volterra integral equation. Find a book on intro to integral equations. First note the transformational formula (for derivation and n'th case, see integral equation text):

[tex]\int_0^t \int_0^t f(t)dtdt=\int_0^t(t-s)f(s)ds[/tex]

Now let:

[tex]y''=-f(t,y)[/tex]

and integrate both sides from 0 to t:

[tex]\int_0^t y'' dt=-\int_0^t f(t,y)dt[/tex]

[tex]y'(t)-z0=-\int_0^t f(t,y)dt[/tex]

Now integrate again and use the transformational expression to arive at the Volterra integral equation.
 
Last edited:
I just got the homework back. I used to volterra transformation but I was basically supposed to derive the transformation myself without just using it, which is pretty much what I expected. I had the prof explain to me how fundamentally it was possible to change a double integration into a single integration. He drew on the board on how to do it, change of variables using basically the technique I also found outlined here on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_integration_(calculus)#Relation_to_integration_by_parts

Even from reading this section, for some reason I'm still struggling a ton to get it.
 

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