Deriving radial velocity as observed from infinity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of radial velocity as observed from infinity in the context of Schwarzschild geometry, specifically referencing the energy equation and its implications for radial fall. Participants seek clarification on the mathematical steps involved in deriving the expression for dr/dt.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents the energy equation in Schwarzschild geometry and outlines the steps to derive dr/dt, asking for assistance with the derivation process.
  • Post 2 reiterates the derivation steps and suggests ignoring certain terms to simplify the equation, proposing a new coefficient for dt².
  • Post 3 requests clarification on how the coefficient for dt² was determined, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the derivation process.
  • Post 4 further explores the rearrangement of the equation to clarify the derivation of the coefficient for dt², attempting to provide a clearer mathematical expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the derivation steps and the coefficients involved, with no consensus reached on the correct approach or interpretation of the equations.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing assumptions and potential misunderstandings in the mathematical steps, particularly regarding the manipulation of terms in the equations presented.

stevebd1
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In Wheeler and Taylor's 'Exploring Black Holes', on pages 3-12 and 3-13, the bookkeeper measure of radial velocity (i.e. radial velocity as measured from infinity) is derived. Basically the equation for 'Energy in Schwarzschild geometry' is established-

\frac{E}{m}=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\frac{dt}{d\tau}=1

The book states-

'From the energy equation and the Schwarzschild metric, we can find an expression for dr/dt, the rate of the change of the r-coordinate with far-away time t for a stone starting from rest at a very great distance. To obtain this derivative, square terms on either side of the right-hand equality, multiply through by d\tau^2, and equate it to the Schwarzschild metric equation for d\tau^2 in the case of radial fall (d\phi=0):

\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2dt^2=d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}[/itex]<br /> <br /> Divide through by dt^2, solve for dr/dt, and take the square root to obtain<br /> <br /> \frac{dr}{dt}=-\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\left(\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{1/2}I&#039;d appreciate if someone could show the process of derivation between the second and third equation.
 
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stevebd1 said:
\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2dt^2=d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}[/itex]<br /> <br /> Divide through by dt^2, solve for dr/dt, and take the square root to obtain<br /> <br /> \frac{dr}{dt}=-\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\left(\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{1/2}<br /> <br /> <br /> I&#039;d appreciate if someone could show the process of derivation between the second and third equation.
<br /> <br /> Hi stevebd1! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":smile:" title="Smile :smile:" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":smile:" /><br /> <br /> Ignore the dtau<sup>2</sup> in the middle, and the coefficient of dt<sup>2</sup> becomes (1 - 2M/r)(1 - 2M/r - 1) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":wink:" title="Wink :wink:" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=":wink:" />
 
Hi tiny-tim

Thanks for the response. I'm probably missing something elementary here but could you shed some light on how you arrived at that coefficient for dt2?
 
stevebd1 said:
Hi tiny-tim

Thanks for the response. I'm probably missing something elementary here but could you shed some light on how you arrived at that coefficient for dt2?

Yup … in
stevebd1 said:
\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2dt^2=\,\cdots\,=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)dt^2-\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}

rearrange to \left[\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^2\ -\ \left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\right]dt^2\ =\ -\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)}

which is \left[\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right\ -\ 1)\right]dt^2\ =\ -\frac{dr^2}{\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)} :smile:
 

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