Detection of transuranic elements in astronomical events

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of detecting transuranic elements during significant astronomical events, such as supernovae and kilonovae. Participants explore the methods of detection, the nature of cosmic events, and the challenges associated with distinguishing radiation from transuranic elements from that of the events themselves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that transuranic elements could be detected through the measurement of emitted radiation, but question how to separate this from the radiation of the astronomical event itself.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of "cosmic events," with some participants clarifying that they are referring to astronomical events, specifically mentioning kilonovae as examples.
  • One participant notes that the spectrum may show up for longer-lived isotopes created in supernova events, suggesting that these isotopes could provide evidence of transuranic elements.
  • Another participant discusses the composition of meteorite grains, highlighting the presence of Ca-44 and its implications for understanding the origins of these grains in relation to transuranic elements.
  • Several participants mention the challenges of detecting transuranic elements, including the difficulty of using spectroscopy and the low quantities in which these elements may be produced.
  • One participant suggests that the opacity of gas in explosive astrophysical sites changes as radioactive elements decay, which could be a method to determine if these elements are newly produced.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definition of "astronomical events" and the specifics of what constitutes an event. There is no consensus on the methods for detecting transuranic elements or the conditions under which they might be observed.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unclear definition of "events," the challenges of spectroscopy, and the low statistics needed for accurate measurements. Participants also note the poor experimental data for some atomic transitions, which complicates the discussion.

Deric Xavier
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Is it possible to detect transuranic elements that may eventually occur during big astronomical events? I know that transuranic elements are radioactive, so we could maybe measure the radiation that is being emited, but how could we separate the radiation that comes from the transuranic elements from the radiation that comes from the event itself?​
 
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What is a cosmic event?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
What is a cosmic event?
Sorry, I meant astronomical events :doh:
 
What do you mean by "occur"?
 
Spectrum may show up for longer living isotopes, which may be created in supernova events.
 
One possible evidence is composition of solids.
Most Ca on earth is Ca-40. Only 2,1% of Ca on Earth is Ca-44.
Yet some grains in meteorites contain mostly Ca-44!
This is evidence that these grains were originally titanium minerals, which on solidification excluded Ca but contained Ti-44 that decayed to Ca-44.
Ti-44 half-life is just 60 years. Which means that within a few decades, supernovae must have cooled so much as to turn into dust rather than glowing interstellar plasma!
The longest lived isotopes of transuranium elements are as follows:
Np-237 (2,14 million years > Bi-209)
Pu-244 (80 million years > Th-232)
Am-243 (7400 years > U-235)
Cm-247 (15,6 million years > U-235)
Bk-247 (1400 years > U-235)
Cf-251 (900 years > U-235)
Now, note that in contrast to Th and U, which persistently have oxidation state +4 in reducing environments, transuranium elements preferentially have oxidation state +3. They should therefore form different minerals, which since decayed.
Do meteorites contain grains or rocks of decayed transuranium ores?
 
OK, then what is an "astronomical event"? I think I've gathered you are not talking about cosmic rays now, but if we have to exclude things one by one we will be here a very long time.
 
vanhees71 said:
a kilonova is an "astronomical event"
If that's what he means.
 
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  • #10
Deric Xavier said:
how could we separate the radiation that comes from the transuranic elements from the radiation that comes from the event itself?
The only way I know of to detect them is to use spectroscopy. Either by directly measuring their absorption/emission spectra, or by measuring the abundance of their decay products. But neither of these are easy to do. Either because transuranic elements aren't being produced or because they aren't being produced in large enough quantities to measure.
 
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  • #11
Well, the OP hasn't told us what an "event" is, and indeed, seems to have lost interest and wandered off Is Oklo an "event"?. Would evidence of a Martian Oklo "count"? I think in principle there is more than spectroscopy, but we'd stiill just be guessing what the OP is looking for.
 
  • #12
Deric Xavier said:
Is it possible to detect transuranic elements that may eventually occur during big astronomical events? I know that transuranic elements are radioactive, so we could maybe measure the radiation that is being emited, but how could we separate the radiation that comes from the transuranic elements from the radiation that comes from the event itself?​
There are 2 approaches to determine if radioactive elements are newly produced in explosive astrophysical sites . One is based on the so-called optical transient: the opacity of the gas will change as the radioactive elements decay (beta or whatever), so the timescale of the change if given by the nuclear decay. This was already observed in the 2 neutron star merger event in 2017.
The spectroscopy of single elements is challenging but doable. In the same astrophysical event, Strontium lines were observed, I do not know if presence of other elements was determined as well.
Among the limitations are the low statistics needed for spectroscopy and the poor experimental data of some atomic transitions. Researchers working on theoretical simulations usually make predictions about the opacity transient.
 

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