Determine all integers ## n ##

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining all integers \( n \) for which the Euler's totient function \( \phi(n) \) is a divisor of \( n \). The problem involves concepts from number theory, particularly the properties of prime factorization and divisibility.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the prime factorization of \( n \) and the conditions under which \( \phi(n) \) divides \( n \). There are discussions about necessary conditions involving prime factors, particularly focusing on the primes \( 2 \) and \( 3 \). Some participants question the rigor of the arguments presented and seek clarification on specific steps in the reasoning.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and corrections to each other's reasoning. Some have proposed necessary conditions for \( n \) and are examining whether these conditions are sufficient. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in the proof and a collaborative effort to refine the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that all powers of \( 2 \) without any \( 3 \)'s are solutions, while any power of \( 3 \) requires at least one \( 2 \). There are also mentions of specific counterexamples that challenge initial assumptions about the solutions.

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Homework Statement
Determine all integers ## n ## for which ## \phi(n) ## is a divisor of ## n ##.
Relevant Equations
None.
Observe that ## \phi(1)=\phi(2)=1 ##.
This implies ## \phi(1)\mid 1 ## and ## \phi(2)\mid 2 ##.
Thus ## n=1 ##.
Let ## n=p_{r}^{k_{1}}\dotsb p_{s}^{k_{s}} ## be the prime factorization of ## n ##.
Then ## \phi(n)=n\prod_{p\mid n} (1-\frac{1}{p}) ##.
Suppose ## \phi(n)\mid n ##.
Then ## \frac{n}{\phi(n)}=(\prod_{p\mid n} \frac{p}{p-1}) ## for some ## n\in\mathbb{Z^{+}} ##.
Note that the prime divisors of ## n ## must be ## 2 ## or ## 3 ## for ## n>1 ##, because ## p-1 ## is even for ## p\geq 3 ##.
Therefore, all integers ## n ## for which ## \phi(n) ## is a divisor of ## n ## are ## 1, 2^{r} ## and ## 2^{r}3^{j} ## for some ## r, j\in\mathbb{N} ##.
 
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Math100 said:
Homework Statement:: Determine all integers ## n ## for which ## \phi(n) ## is a divisor of ## n ##.
Relevant Equations:: None.

Observe that ## \phi(1)=\phi(2)=1 ##.
This implies ## \phi(1)\mid 1 ## and ## \phi(2)\mid 2 ##.
Thus ## n=1 ##.
Let ## n=p_{r}^{k_{1}}\dotsb p_{s}^{k_{s}} ## be the prime factorization of ## n ##.
Then ## \phi(n)=n\prod_{p\mid n} (1-\frac{1}{p}) ##.
Suppose ## \phi(n)\mid n ##.
Then ## \frac{n}{\phi(n)}=(\prod_{p\mid n} \frac{p}{p-1}) ## for some ## n\in\mathbb{Z^{+}} ##.
Note that the prime divisors of ## n ## must be ## 2 ## or ## 3 ## for ## n>1 ##, because ## p-1 ## is even for ## p\geq 3 ##.
Therefore, all integers ## n ## for which ## \phi(n) ## is a divisor of ## n ## are ## 1, 2^{r} ## and ## 2^{r}3^{j} ## for some ## r, j\in\mathbb{N} ##.
Looks good. I would write it differently.

We have ##\varphi (n)=n\cdot \displaystyle{\prod_{p|n}\left(1-\dfrac{1}{p}\right)}## and thus
$$
\dfrac{n}{\varphi (n)}=\prod_{p|n}\left(1-\dfrac{1}{p}\right)^{-1}=\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{p}{p-1}
$$
The necessary condition is that ##P:=\displaystyle{\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{p}{p-1} } \in \mathbb{Z}.##

From here on I have difficulties with your rigor, which means you lost me.

If ##p\geq 3## then ##\dfrac{p}{p-1}=\dfrac{2m+1}{2m}.## So ##P\in \mathbb{Z}## only if ##2m## occurs in the numerator again without creating new denominators, i.e. is a power of ##2,## say ##2m=2^k.## Then ##\varphi (p\cdot 2^k)=2^{k-1}\cdot (p-1) \,|\,(p\cdot 2^k)## if ##\dfrac{p-1}{2}\,|\,p## which is only possible for ##p=3## and ##k\geq 1.##

So ##n=r^s\cdot 3^t## with ##s\in \mathbb{N}## and ##t \in \mathbb{N}_0:=\mathbb{N}\cup \{0\}.##

This is our necessary condition. (You have forgotten that all powers of ##2## without any ##3's## are a solution, and any power of ##3's## require at least one ##2.##)

Is it also sufficient? Are all numbers ##n=r^s\cdot 3^t## with ##s\geq 1\, , \,t\geq 0## solutions to ##\varphi (n)\,|\,n\;?##
 
fresh_42 said:
Looks good. I would write it differently.

We have ##\varphi (n)=n\cdot \displaystyle{\prod_{p|n}\left(1-\dfrac{1}{p}\right)}## and thus
$$
\dfrac{n}{\varphi (n)}=\prod_{p|n}\left(1-\dfrac{1}{p}\right)^{-1}=\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{p}{p-1}
$$
The necessary condition is that ##P:=\displaystyle{\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{p}{p-1} } \in \mathbb{Z}.##

From here on I have difficulties with your rigor, which means you lost me.

If ##p\geq 3## then ##\dfrac{p}{p-1}=\dfrac{2m+1}{2m}.## So ##P\in \mathbb{Z}## only if ##2m## occurs in the numerator again without creating new denominators, i.e. is a power of ##2,## say ##2m=2^k.## Then ##\varphi (p\cdot 2^k)=2^{k-1}\cdot (p-1) \,|\,(p\cdot 2^k)## if ##\dfrac{p-1}{2}\,|\,p## which is only possible for ##p=3## and ##k\geq 1.##

So ##n=r^s\cdot 3^t## with ##s\in \mathbb{N}## and ##t \in \mathbb{N}_0:=\mathbb{N}\cup \{0\}.##

This is our necessary condition. (You have forgotten that all powers of ##2## without any ##3's## are a solution, and any power of ##3's## require at least one ##2.##)

Is it also sufficient? Are all numbers ##n=r^s\cdot 3^t## with ##s\geq 1\, , \,t\geq 0## solutions to ##\varphi (n)\,|\,n\;?##
Not all numbers ## n=r^{s}\cdot 3^{t} ## with ## s\geq 1, t\geq 0 ## are solutions to ## \phi(n)\mid n ##.
 
Math100 said:
Not all numbers ## n=r^{s}\cdot 3^{t} ## with ## s\geq 1, t\geq 0 ## are solutions to ## \phi(n)\mid n ##.
Sorry. Big typo! I meant ##r=2.##
 
fresh_42 said:
Sorry. Big typo! I meant ##r=2.##
Yes, the counterexample is ## r=1, s=2, t=1 ##. Because then we have ## \phi(3)\nmid 3 ##.
 
And yes, all numbers ## n=2^{s}\cdot 3^{t} ## with ## s\geq 1, t\geq 0 ## are solutions to ## \phi(n)\mid n ##.
 
Suppose ## n=2^{s}\cdot 3^{t} ## with ## s\geq 1, t\geq 0 ##.
Then ## \phi(n)=\phi(2^{s})\phi(3^{t})=2^{s-1}\cdot 3^{t-1}\cdot 2=2^{s}\cdot 3^{t-1} ##.
Thus ## \phi(n)\mid n ## for ## n=2^{s}\cdot 3^{t} ##.
 
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So how should I explain this part in the middle of my proof after mentioning the ## p\geq 3 ## part? Do I insert/add ## 2m=2^{k} ## part?
 
Math100 said:
So how should I explain this part in the middle of my proof after mentioning the ## p\geq 3 ## part? Do I insert/add ## 2m=2^{k} ## part?
It is the essential part. I didn't get it in your version, so I wrote my own to convince myself. But, I am afraid, my version isn't perfect either. "... occurs in the numerator again without creating new denominators ..." isn't very professional. But my start was fine. Proofs in algebra are basically always indirect: What if ...

I think this is better:

If ##p\geq 3## Then ##P\in \mathbb{Z}## means
$$\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{p}{p-1}=\dfrac{2m+1}{2m}\prod_{p|n,p\neq 2m+1}\dfrac{p}{p-1}\in \mathbb{Z}
$$
This requires ##2|p'## for another prime ##p'## and ##m=1## which means ##p=2\cdot 1+1=3.##
 
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  • #10
fresh_42 said:
It is the essential part. I didn't get it in your version, so I wrote my own to convince myself. But, I am afraid, my version isn't perfect either. "... occurs in the numerator again without creating new denominators ..." isn't very professional. But my start was fine. Proofs in algebra are basically always indirect: What if ...

I think this is better:

If ##p\geq 3## Then ##P\in \mathbb{Z}## means ##\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{p}{p-1}=\prod_{p|n}\dfrac{2m+1}{2m}## This requires ##2|n## and ##m=1## which means ##p=2\cdot 1+1=3.##
Yes, sorry, it's all my fault. I was trying to form this proof based on my textbook's answer, so it was very vague. I like your version much more.
 
  • #11
Math100 said:
Yes, sorry, it's all my fault. I was trying to form this proof based on my textbook's answer, so it was very vague. I like your version much more.
Reload the page. I corrected the formula a bit.
 
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