Does Human Population Growth Impact Lunar Orbit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether human population growth has any impact on the lunar orbit, particularly in relation to gravitational effects. Participants explore the relationship between mass, gravity, and the distance of the Moon from the Earth over time, considering both theoretical and observational perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the increase in human population mass could affect the Moon's distance from Earth, suggesting a potential gravitational influence.
  • Another participant asserts that the Moon is actually moving away from the Earth at a rate of approximately 3.8 cm per year, indicating that this is an established observation rather than a theory.
  • Some participants clarify that the mass of the human population does not contribute significantly to the overall mass of the Earth, and thus does not affect the Moon's orbit.
  • There is mention of the mass of incoming materials like meteorites being negligible in comparison to the Earth's mass, further supporting the argument that human population growth does not impact lunar orbit.
  • Participants discuss the reliability of Wikipedia as a source of information, with some expressing skepticism about its factual accuracy, particularly in the context of political biases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the Moon is receding from the Earth, but there is disagreement regarding the implications of human population mass on gravitational effects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the initial question posed about the impact of population growth on lunar orbit.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the small scales of mass changes due to human population and other factors, noting that these changes are unmeasurable in the context of the Earth's overall mass. There are also references to the political situation affecting access to information sources like Wikipedia, which may influence participants' perspectives.

David Prince
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The next questions will be in english and spanish, since my birth language is spanish I may be mistaken in a few english words.
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Spanish

Debo advertir que no soy ningún experto en la materia y que no soy muy conocedor sobre física ni gravedad pero he tenido esta duda desde hace un par de días y considere que este seria un buen lugar en donde hacer mis preguntas.

He estado leyendo sobre la teoría de Einstein y sobre la teoría de Hawking y algo que he notado respecto a la unión entre la física y la gravedad es que en la física la materia siempre ha tenido que ver en el asunto de la gravedad, por lo tanto mi pregunta es la siguiente:

¿Ha habido algún registro de que la Luna se haya acerado algunos centímetros o metros mas hacia la tierra en los últimos 500 años, teniendo en cuenta de que la cantidad de personas en la tierra a aumentado dramáticamente, la masa de todas estas personas podría afectar indirectamente junto con la masa de la tierra la gravedad de la misma, haciendo que la fuerza gravitacional sea mas grande atrayendo a la Luna mas hacia la tierra?

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English

I must warn that I am not an expert on the subject and that I am not very knowledgeable about physics or gravity but I have had this question for a couple of days and I think that this would be a good place to ask my questions.

I've been reading about Einstein's theory and the Hawking theory and something I've noticed about the connection between physics and gravity is that in physics matter has always had to do with the matter of gravity, so So much my question is this:

Has there been any record that the Moon has stamped a few centimeters or more meters towards the Earth in the last 500 years, considering that the number of people on the Earth has increased dramatically, the mass of all these people could affect indirectly together with the Earth's mass the gravity of it, causing the gravitational force to be bigger, attracting the Moon more towards the earth?
 
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The Moon is slowly moving away from Earth. a few centimeters each year.
This is not a theory it is an observation.
 
First of all, where do you think the mass for the human population comes from? Beside that, the mass of incoming material like meteorites is such a small portion, that it doesn't have any effect, and the moon is hit as well. However, the distance between Earth and moon is changing, but in the other direction. The distance is increasing by 3.8 cm per year, but this has nothing to do with a change of masses.
 
rootone said:
The Moon is slowly moving away from Earth. a few centimeters each year.
This is not a theory it is an observation.
Oh okay, thanks for awnsering me so fast, was a doubt I had and there is no website that could solve my doubt.
 
fresh_42 said:
First of all, where do you think the mass for the human population comes from? Beside that, the mass of incoming material like meteorites is such a small portion, that it doesn't have any effect, and the moon is hit as well. However, the distance between Earth and moon is changing, but in the other direction. The distance is increasing by 3.8 cm per year, but this has nothing to do with a change of masses.
N
fresh_42 said:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna#Distancia_a_la_Luna
I'm from Venezuela, Wikipedia its blocked in my country
 
David Prince said:
N

I'm from Venezuela, Wikipedia its blocked in my country
That is strange, in most countries Wiki is not considered to be reliable, but generally is considered to be factual.
Well it is as far as mainstream science goes, but sure don't take any UFOs and aliens articles seriously
 
Interesting to hear. I never saw Wikipedia as a political biased site, probably because I mainly use it as a lexicon for mathematics and natural sciences which are far from being political.
 
rootone said:
That is strange, in most countries Wiki is not considered to be reliable, but generally is considered to be factual.
Well it is as far as mainstream science goes, but sure don't take any UFOs and aliens articles seriously
Yeah it sucks, that is why I'm asking in this forum
 
  • #10
fresh_42 said:
Interesting to hear. I never saw Wikipedia as a political biased site, probably because I mainly use it as a lexicon for mathematics and natural sciences which are far from being political.
Yeah it sucks, it happen like a few months ago with the change but anyway, thanks for the response!
 
  • #11
rootone said:
That is strange, in most countries Wiki is not considered to be reliable, but generally is considered to be factual.
That's true. If you want to look up the portion of an element in the Earth's crust or what a topology is, then it is reliable. You just can't learn topology from it.
 
  • #12
David Prince said:
Yeah it sucks, that is why I'm asking in this forum
You're welcome! Btw., we also have a pretty good homework section - just in case!
 
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  • #13
As indicated, the mass of all humans comes from Earth and does not change the overall mass of Earth. It is unclear if we gain more mass from asteroids or lose more mass from gases escaping to space, but both have an unmeasurably small effect on the overall mass.

To give some idea of the scales involved, all in billion tonnes:
Mass of stuff hitting Earth from stuff per year: 0.000,04 to 0.000,07
Mass of gas escaping Earth per year: 0.000,05 to 0.000,10
Mass of all humans: ~0.3 (currently increasing by ~0.004 per year)
Mass of all living things on Earth: A few thousand (with a big uncertainty)
Mass of Earth: 5,970,000,000,000

rootone said:
That is strange, in most countries Wiki is not considered to be reliable, but generally is considered to be factual.
Well it is as far as mainstream science goes, but sure don't take any UFOs and aliens articles seriously
fresh_42 said:
Interesting to hear. I never saw Wikipedia as a political biased site, probably because I mainly use it as a lexicon for mathematics and natural sciences which are far from being political.
The political situation in Venezuela is ... special. Wikipedia being factual is the reason it is blocked.
 
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  • #14
David Prince said:
The next questions will be in english and spanish, since my birth language is spanish I may be mistaken in a few english words.
However keep in mind that PF rules allow only English here.
David Prince said:
Has there been any record that the Moon has stamped a few centimeters or more meters towards the Earth in the last 500 years, considering that the number of people on the Earth has increased dramatically, the mass of all these people could affect indirectly together with the Earth's mass the gravity of it, causing the gravitational force to be bigger, attracting the Moon more towards the earth?
The moon actually recedes away from the Earth at a slow rate (as already mentioned by other replies above). E.g.
fresh_42 said:
However, the distance between Earth and moon is changing, but in the other direction. The distance is increasing by 3.8 cm per year, but this has nothing to do with a change of masses.
The phenomenon is called "Recession of the moon" and/or/related "Tidal acceletation".

Note: Welcome to PF
 
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