Does the rotating black hole have a double or single photon sphere?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of the photon sphere in rotating black holes, specifically whether it consists of a single or double photon sphere. Participants explore the implications of various equations and concepts related to the photon sphere's radius and its behavior in the context of both static and rotating black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the photon sphere for a static black hole is located at \( r_{c} = 3r_{g} \), where \( r_{g} \) is the gravitational radius, and question whether this holds true for rotating black holes.
  • One participant presents calculations suggesting that light could orbit closer than the traditional photon sphere radius, proposing a radius of approximately \( 2.414r_{g} \) where centripetal acceleration equals gravitational acceleration.
  • Another participant challenges the application of centripetal force concepts to photons, suggesting that the equations may not be rigorously valid for light.
  • A reference to a book provides an equation that relates the photon sphere radius to the spin parameter of the black hole, indicating that the photon sphere radius decreases from \( 3r_{g} \) to \( 1r_{g} \) as the spin parameter approaches 1.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the existence of a double photon sphere in rotating black holes, noting that while some sources suggest a single photon sphere, there may be another related to the ergosphere that affects light traveling in the opposite direction of rotation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether a rotating black hole has a single or double photon sphere. There are multiple competing views and ongoing questions regarding the implications of various equations and the behavior of light in these contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the applicability of certain equations to photons and the conditions under which the photon sphere is defined, particularly in relation to rotating black holes. The discussion highlights the complexity of the topic and the need for further exploration.

stevebd1
Science Advisor
Insights Author
Messages
747
Reaction score
41
While it's widely accepted that the photon sphere is equal to

[tex]r_{c}=\frac{3Gm}{c^2}[/tex] or [tex]3r_{g}[/tex]

[tex]r_{g}[/tex]= gravitational radius ([tex]Gm/c^{2}[/tex])

while looking at the double photon sphere for the rotating black hole I found myself wanting to understand the actual specifics of the photon sphere. According to most sources it's the place where light's momentum can no longer counteract the gravitation pull of the black and spirals into the black hole i.e. the gravitational acceleration of the black hole is greater than the centripetal acceleration of the photon. Based on a 3 sol static black hole, I put this to the test-

radius of photon sphere

[tex]r_{c}=\frac{3Gm}{c^2}[/tex] = 13291.648 m

gravity at photon sphere

[tex]a_{g}=\frac{Gm}{r^{2}}\left(1-\frac{2Gm}{rc^{2}}\right)^{-\frac{1}{2}}[/tex]

= 3.9039e12 m/s^2

Required velocity at photon sphere based on [tex]a_{c}=v^{2}/r[/tex] and that [tex]a_{c}[/tex] (centripetal acceleration) needs to equal [tex]a_{g}[/tex] (gravitational acceleration)

[tex]v=\sqrt{a_{g}r}[/tex] = 2.2779e8 m/s (0.76c)

From the above it seemed that light could orbit closer without being captured, this appears to be at ~10.696.3 m or 2.414[tex]r_{g}[/tex] where the centripetal acceleration of light equals gravity acceleration.

Is there something I've missed or does the [tex]3r_{g}[/tex] represent the point where light begins to bend due to gravity and the ~[tex]2.5r_{g}[/tex] the point of no return? I was under the impression that the photon sphere was where photons form a stable orbit around the black hole but the info above suggests it closer to the black hole.

regards
Steve
 
Last edited:
Astronomy news on Phys.org
I'm not sure if your latter equations are rigorously legitimate when applied to light.
I mean: i don't think its valid to apply centripetal force on a photon, and perhaps not gravity either.
 
Thanks for the response. I found an equation in the book 'Exploring Black Holes' by Edwin F Taylor & John A Wheeler, pages 5-11 - 5-13, which provides information regarding [tex]r_{c}=3r_{g}[/tex]'-

[tex]\frac{1-2\left(\frac{r_{g}}{r_{c}}\right)}{r_{c}^{2}}=\frac{1}{b^{2}}[/tex]

[tex]r_{g}[/tex]= gravitational radius, [tex]r_{c}[/tex]= photon sphere, [tex]b[/tex]= [tex]b_{critical}[/tex]=[tex]r_{g}\sqrt{27}=r_{g}5.196[/tex]

from the book-
'The RHS of the equation is the measure of the radial velocity of the particle which depends, through [tex]b[/tex], on the choice of orbit but not on the Schwarzschild geometry. The LHS equation depends on the Schwarzschild geometry but not on choice of orbit'.

[tex]b[/tex] is the impact parameter, the perpendicular distance between the velocity vector of the photon and the black hole it's approaching. (basically, any photon approaching within this zone will collide with the black hole, any photon approaching on the edge of this zone, [tex]b_{critical}[/tex], will end up in the photon sphere

As this applies to a static black hole, I'd be interested in knowing how it applies to a rotating black hole. Also while there are two photon spheres when looking at the rotating black hole from the equator, it seems they might converge at the poles (as with the ergosphere and outer event horizon), as there is no frame-dragging to create corotation & counterrotation. it would be interesting to know what would dictate the radius at the poles.

There's probably a way of extracting [tex]r_{c}[/tex] but it looks like it might end up as a cubic equation.

Steve
 
Last edited:
photon sphere radius for static and rotating black holes-

[tex]r_{ph}=2r_{g}\left[1+cos\left(\frac{2}{3}arccos(-a)\right)\right][/tex]

[tex]r_{ph}[/tex]- photon sphere, [tex]r_{g}[/tex]- gravitational radius, [tex]a[/tex]- spin parameter between 0 - 1

source-
http://www.lsw.uni-heidelberg.de/users/mcamenzi/CObjects_06.pdf page 259

(this appears to be an extract from the book 'Compact Objects in Astrophysics' which is available online through Max Camenzind's homepage at The Centre for Astronomy of Heidelberg University (ZAH)).

According to the equation, the photon sphere reduces from [tex]3r_{g}[/tex] at [tex]a=0[/tex] to [tex]1r_{g}[/tex] at [tex]a=1[/tex] (the event horizon reducing to [tex]1r_{g}[/tex] at [tex]a=1[/tex] also).

Interestingly there is no mention of the double photon sphere.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
While looking at various sources, there seems to be differing opinion on whether the rotating black hole has a double or single photon sphere. While there is the equation in post #4 that shows a singular photon sphere reducing to the event horizon at a=1, is it possible there is another photon sphere that reduces to the profile of the ergosphere which relates to light going in the opposite direction of the rotation; or does the equation in post #4 simply imply that light isn't affected by rotation (maybe in terms of blueshift and redshift but not in terms of capture). I'd be interested to hear other peoples points of view regarding this.

regards
Steve
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
621
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
9K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K