Does vacuum excitation violate the conservation of energy?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of vacuum excitation and its implications for the conservation of energy within the framework of relativistic quantum optics. Participants explore the nature of vacuum states in quantum field theory, particularly in relation to the presence of a detector atom and the transition probabilities associated with vacuum excitations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a scenario involving a detector atom and a quantized electromagnetic field, questioning how vacuum excitation can occur without violating conservation of energy.
  • Another participant argues that the presence of a detector atom means the system is not in a true vacuum state, suggesting that "vacuum fluctuations" are often misunderstood.
  • A later reply notes that vacuum states differ between free field theory and interacting field theory, raising the relevance of this distinction.
  • Some participants assert that the vacuum state is defined as the ground state of quantum field theory, indicating that it contains no energy fluctuations.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the implications of vacuum states and energy levels, questioning the terminology used in describing vacuum states.
  • One participant emphasizes that the vacuum state is characterized by the absence of atoms and fields, suggesting that the presence of any matter alters the vacuum condition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of vacuum states and their implications for energy conservation. There is no consensus on whether the presence of a detector atom affects the definition of vacuum states or the conservation of energy in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the definitions of vacuum states across different theories, as well as the implications of energy eigenstates in quantum field theory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between vacuum excitation and energy conservation.

Haorong Wu
Messages
419
Reaction score
90
TL;DR
Does vacuum excitation violate the conservation of energy?
Hi, there. I am reading the article Relativistic quantum optics: The relativistic invariance of the light-matter interaction models by Eduardo Martin-Martinez el al (2018).

Here he calculate the transition probability of a vacuum excitation for a detector.

Suppose there is a lab where the electricmagnetic field is quantizedthe, and a detector atom is traveling relative to the lab. Assume that the initial state of the detector atom and the field is the ground state ##\left | g,0 \right >##. Then the transition probability of the vacuum excitation is given by
##p\left ( \Omega \right)=\sum_{out} \left | \left < {e}, {out} \right | U \left | {g}, 0 \right > \right | ^2##
where the sum over states ##\left | {out} \right >## represent a sum over an orthonormal basis of possible final states of the field.

At last, he derived a expression for ##P\left ( \Omega \right )## which is not zero.

But if the detector atom was at the ground state and the field was at the vacuum state initially, and then the atom was excited and the field could be some state other than the vacuum state, the law of conservation of energy seems to be violated.

How could that be possible?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Well, since there is a "detector atom" it's not vacuum anymore. I think the idea of "vacuum fluctuations" as used in hand-waving arguments (usually in popular-science textbooks but unfortunately sometimes even in textbooks in an attempt of some authors wanting to be "didactical") is the most confusing misguidance of students ever! Don't take it too literarly.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba
vanhees71 said:
Well, since there is a "detector atom" it's not vacuum anymore. I think the idea of "vacuum fluctuations" as used in hand-waving arguments (usually in popular-science textbooks but unfortunately sometimes even in textbooks in an attempt of some authors wanting to be "didactical") is the most confusing misguidance of students ever! Don't take it too literarly.
So the state of the field is not really the vacuum state? Wait a munite. I think I have read something similar in the quantum field theory.

I remember that the vacuum states are different in the free field theory and the interacting field theory. Is this relavant?
 
Yes, it is. The vacuum state is by definition the ground state of your quantum field theory and thus there are no energy fluctuations, because it's an energy eigenstate by definition.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba and Haorong Wu
vanhees71 said:
Yes, it is. The vacuum state is by definition the ground state of your quantum field theory and thus there are no energy fluctuations, because it's an energy eigenstate by definition.

Thanks! I got it. Thus initially, the field is at the vacuum state for the interacting theory since it is coupled to the atom. After interacting with the atom, the field becomes the vacuum state for the free theory.
 
No, it's even simpler: If there is an atom, there's no vacuum anymore, because there's a nucleus and electrons.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba
vanhees71 said:
No, it's even simpler: If there is an atom, there's no vacuum anymore, because there's a nucleus and electrons.

Well, I am confused again.

If the vacuum state is the state with the lowest energy, then after the atom is excited, the field should lose some energy and drop to a lower state, but there is no lower state.

If the vacuum state is not the lowest state, then the name "vacuum state" is quite odd.
 
Sure, but the vacuum is the state where nothing is there, no atom and no field.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba and Haorong Wu

Similar threads

  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K