Easy test if unitary group is cyclic

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    Cyclic Group Test
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around determining whether the unitary group U(n) is cyclic, exploring the properties of U(n) under various operations and conditions. Participants examine the implications of different definitions and operations on the group, particularly focusing on cases where n is prime versus nonprime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks if there is an easy way to determine if U(n) is cyclic, defining U(n) as the set of integers i where gcd(i,n)=1.
  • Several participants question the definition of the unitary group, suggesting that an operation is needed, with some proposing addition mod n and others clarifying that multiplication mod n is intended.
  • It is noted that U(12) is not cyclic, and one participant expresses a desire for a method to check for a generator without exhaustive searching.
  • Concerns are raised about the operation of multiplication modulo n, particularly for nonprime n, with a suggestion that U(n) may not form a subgroup of a field unless n is prime.
  • Another participant mentions the Chinese Remainder Theorem and its potential relevance to understanding unitary groups, prompting further inquiry into its implications.
  • One participant speculates that for moduli which are powers of squarefree numbers, a generator exists, but later retracts this statement, indicating uncertainty about the completeness of this reasoning.
  • U(15) is mentioned as an example that is not cyclic, raising questions about its classification as a power of a squarefree number.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the properties of U(n), particularly regarding the conditions under which it is cyclic. There is no consensus on a definitive method to determine cyclicity, especially for nonprime cases.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their discussions, including the necessity of defining operations clearly and the implications of prime versus nonprime values of n on the structure of U(n).

Max.Planck
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Is there an easy way to see if a unitary group is cyclic? The unitary group U(n) is defined as follows U(n)=\{i\in\mathbb{N}:gcd(i,n)=1\}. Cyclic means that there exits a element of the group that generates the entire group.
 
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That does not look like the usual "unitary group".
Those groups needs some operation.
- Addition mod n (and restrict i to 0...n-1)? In that case, prime numbers could be interesting.
- Addition as in the natural numbers? 1, n and n+1 might be interesting to consider...
 
mfb said:
That does not look like the usual "unitary group".
Those groups needs some operation.
- Addition mod n (and restrict i to 0...n-1)? In that case, prime numbers could be interesting.
- Addition as in the natural numbers? 1, n and n+1 might be interesting to consider...
The operation is multiplication mod n, sorry forgot to mention.
 
micromass said:
I think the problem is that, if G is to be a multiplicative subgroup of a field K, the operation cannot be the ordinary multiplication modulo n (unless n is prime). For example, U(12) or Z/12Z can be subsets of Q, but not subgroups; they are groups in their own right, by virtue of a different operation than in Q.
 
Dodo said:
I think the problem is that, if G is to be a multiplicative subgroup of a field K, the operation cannot be the ordinary multiplication modulo n (unless n is prime). For example, U(12) or Z/12Z can be subsets of Q, but not subgroups; they are groups in their own right, by virtue of a different operation than in Q.

I'm not talking about \mathbb{Q}. I'm talking of the field \mathbb{Z}_p and the subgroup U(p). This answers the OP his question in the case that n is prime.
Now he should think about the nonprime cases.
 
micromass said:
I'm not talking about \mathbb{Q}. I'm talking of the field \mathbb{Z}_p and the subgroup U(p). This answers the OP his question in the case that n is prime.
Now he should think about the nonprime cases.

In case it is prime it is cyclic then. But when it is nonprime I only see looking through the elements for a generator as the only solution.
 
Something else that might be worth to look at would be the Chinese Remainder theorem. Se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_remainder_theorem

If n=p_1^{k_1}...p_s^{k_s}, this says that there is an isomorphism of rings

\mathbb{Z}_n=\mathbb{Z}_{p_1^{k_1}} \times ... \times \mathbb{Z}_{p_s^{k_s}}

Can you deduce anything about the unitary groups?
 
  • #10
micromass said:
Something else that might be worth to look at would be the Chinese Remainder theorem. Se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_remainder_theorem

If n=p_1^{k_1}...p_s^{k_s}, this says that there is an isomorphism of rings

\mathbb{Z}_n=\mathbb{Z}_{p_1^{k_1}} \times ... \times \mathbb{Z}_{p_s^{k_s}}

Can you deduce anything about the unitary groups?

No, i don't see it.
 
  • #11
micromass said:
\mathbb{Z}_n=\mathbb{Z}_{p_1^{k_1}} \times ... \times \mathbb{Z}_{p_s^{k_s}}
Hmm, that was clever. It should tell you (at least) that, for moduli which are a power of a squarefree number, a generator exists and is the product of the generators under the composing primes. I don't know if more can be read from this, though.

Edit: Ehem, no, erase what I just said. You can generate numbers as product of powers of the generators, but you need differents powers to generate them all. So I'm shutting up for the moment. :)
 
Last edited:
  • #12
Dodo said:
Hmm, that was clever. It should tell you (at least) that, for moduli which are a power of a squarefree number, a generator exists and is the product of the generators under the composing primes. I don't know if more can be read from this, though.

Edit: Ehem, no, erase what I just said. You can generate numbers as product of powers of the generators, but you need differents powers to generate them all. So I'm shutting up for the moment. :)

U(15) is not cyclic, but it is a power of a squarefree number right?
 
  • #13
Anyone?
 

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